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[The Register] Apple asked me for my Bank statements, says outraged reader - Page 5

post #41 of 86
Interesting... I don't often find myself on the side of Apple but I have to say that they are mostly in the right about this issue.

I work for a online mobile phone retailer and we routinely ask for extra proofs (such as a bank statements, driving license or passports etc) if an order gets flagged as being possibly fraudulent. We do this mainly to protect ourselves as we give the phone away free for most contracts and then rely on the commission paid to us by the network operator for the contract connection in order to make our money. If the customer doesn't pay their bills to the network then they don't pay us the commission and then we lose a pile of money on the value of the phone.

Now in this case Apple themselves don't seem to be at risk since they have already taken payment for the product, thus they must be doing it to genuinely protect the customer from potential fraud i.e. if someone has stolen your card details and are using them to buy a bunch of stuff.

I think you have to appreciate how massive a problem online fraud is in the industry, around 10-15% of the orders we recieve on our site are actually fraudulent! Normally we can spot them from a mile away and we just cancel them out right and then try alert the person whose identities are being used (not always easy).
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post #42 of 86
asking for personal documents to ensure security? ibad

how that lady felt after sending them? isad

how we all feel about apple now? imad

how i feel about not buying apple products? iglad
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post #43 of 86
Quote:
She feared her identity was about to be stolen due to the amount of personal information she had just handed over.

She is a moron, Apple didn't do anything here. This is another one of those things where the user is to blame, but the user tries to blame the company and it makes the news. It's not like Apple hacked into her things and got the information, she willingly handed over the information then changed her mind after sending it.

Corporations asking for personal information isn't really exclusive to Apple either, I keep getting emails from Google asking for my phone number and address.
    
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post #44 of 86
I don't get the big deal, although she needed to put a big "VOID" or "COPY" on that scan of her passport.

Also B&W would have been fine too I'm sure they didn't NEED a color copy but they asked for it.

Sometimes when someone picks up a computer from my shop and they lost their receipt I ask them for the drivers license so I can record who picked up the PC.

If the customer doesn't mind I take a B&W, copy labeled copy and attach it to the pickup stub.

With CC I'm even more paranoid and only accept cards from people I trust, I don't do big transactions because imprints are required and I'm generally not liking the fees.

CC is a big pain in the butt...
Quote:
As you work in finance you are probably aware of the incredible power a full color copy of your passport could be, which is why other, safer forms of identity confirmation would be more appropriate.

Can you explain what the big deal of a scan of the PP is?
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post #45 of 86
The funny thing is, when I wanted to correct my PayPal information and confirm two different email addresses under the same name, I had to take a picture of my I.D. with my phone and send that picture to PayPal in order to confirm who I am. They also require you to link a bank account in order to verify your PayPal account. So I'm not really surprised that Apple asked this woman for her information before they sold to her. Now what they do with it is a different story........
post #46 of 86
So my options are:

1. Deal with a company that keeps all aspects of my online life.
2. Deal with a company that has an overpriced product, will deny sales if I don't prove I'm me over an unsecured connection, and has a crap warranty.

Our options are getting worse by the day.....
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post #47 of 86
paypal did this to me. i've never heard of them doing it to my fiancee or any of my other friends and they use paypal way more then i do. my name is VERY hispanic so i assumed security department is just filled with racists. cant say for sure it is but its what i feel like it considering all of my non-hispanic friends have never had this happen to them. i had to give them a copy of my drivers license and copies of my bank records JUST SO i could withdrawl my money. the ironic part, is the entire time i was totally allowed to withdrawl money from my bank to my paypal account, i just couldnt take it back out or spend it.
post #48 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBEG View Post

You misread or misunderstand. The vendor first initiates contact with the CC company re: a certain purchase. They ask CC company to verify the identity of the cardholder and that the person named on the card is in fact trying to make the purchase. CC company calls the cardholder, verifies, and gets back to the vendor. This is what is currently done in varying levels of retail, something I've done with a vendor in the recent past, and the process takes less than five minutes. It is also cheaper for all parties.
Hmm. Ok. So the CC company calls a number that should belong to the CC holder. A number provided by the CC holder, but that number can already be under control of the attacker or they could have changed it with the info they have. In that case the verification is done with the wrong person. Right?
post #49 of 86
Yea, it's because it's online and through e-mail. Honestly I would go to a store front if I really need to prove who I was.
post #50 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbles37 View Post

Yes the woman was not a victim per se, as she, in the end, was out nothing except the time that it took for her to contact law enforcement and her bank. I am not exactly an Apple hater; I have an iPhone myself.

As you work in finance you are probably aware of the incredible power a full color copy of your passport could be, which is why other, safer forms of identity confirmation would be more appropriate.

Put in context, this was an online transaction; a one-time purchase of a single item. I would hesitate to call it--an iPad--a high-value item, though resale value is substantial. There was no line of credit being established and it was a simple exchange of currency for goods. In light of these facts, a full-color passport photo seems inappropriate. Briefly showing your driver's license to a clerk at a store to verify your identity is one thing, but giving an actual permanent copy of your passport over the internet to a company is just dangerous. No major companies have been hacked in recent years, right?

But we don't have to go that far, because the very fact that this story is newsworthy at all means that it is a somewhat big deal. It is definitely not commonplace in the digital realm. A bank and even law enforcement had never heard of such a thing.

I appreciate that Apple takes steps to ensure that transactions are legitimate. But there is a point where it should be considered "too far."

And the more we let dumb stuff like this slide when it comes to gigantic companies, the further they will go over time.

It is a single transaction that is worth up to £640, I regularly see fraudulent applications from £200 upward so I don't think it is too unreasonable to instigate anti-fraud measures on these purchases.

At the end of the day using stolen card information to buy items on-line is relatively common, and charge backs cost quite a bit to deal with for retailers. It's hardly surprising they flag some transactions and request further information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

Typically the CC companies do call vendors if they suspect fraud or at least put a hold on the charge and verify with the account holder. That's #1. #2 I have NEVER in my entire career heard it in the finance community to be appropriate to ask for a copy of someones PASSPORT in COLOR to verify IDENTITY. (BTW its illegal to photocopy ,including scanning by email go ahead go to kinkos and try it =), ANY identification in color in the United States, unless it is incorrectly sized or shaped so that is a no go)

Then maybe Apple are in the wrong in this regard, I do not know the legal limits placed on American companies, however I do not believe it is unreasonable to request proof of identity if a transaction is flagged as possibly being fraudulent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

Can you please PLEASE tell me which company you "work in finance" for. I'd think the SEC and the bureau of consular affairs would both be interested to know which company thinks it is ok to violate federal laws involving counterfeiting identification (which is the exact reason for said above law and why it is illegal to ask for COPIES of someone's ID in color)

My company operates in the United Kingdom, so breaking federal laws isn't too big a deal for us.

In fact in the UK it is required under anti-money laundering and anti-fraud regulations to have monitoring systems in place for this kind of fraud, and to ensure that client due diligence is carried out where appropriate.

My company still wouldn't insist specifically on a colour photocopy of a passport, but we do often request some kind of photographic ID. We also regularly request bank statements, clients are free to not provide them, but at the same time we are free not to issue them with a loan or refund.
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