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post #201 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by moocowman View Post

I don't understand statements like this. Do people really hate the ability to download new content? Why is it DLC that you hate and not the fact that developers and publishers tend to abuse it? There's plenty of good DLC out there so I don't understand why people make it to be some evil entity that's destroying the industry. It's rather silly..

DLC = garbage

the "good" ones you are reffering were the ones called "expansions"...long gone...
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post #202 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by moocowman View Post

I can list quite a few really good DLCs that's all worth the money spent on them. Heck.. just look at almost every Bethesda DLC. I can also list a bunch of good free DLC as well. People seem to only focus on the bad while completely ignoring the good.

So can I, that was not the point. The point was that more often then not the DLC's are a shameless money grab. True Bethesda has had a decent tack record when it comes to DLC's though even they have had there horse armor. Luckily most skyrim DLC's are made in the style of actual expansions.

Then there is the question what you actually classify as a "DLC". Steam calls the Skyrim: High Resolution Texture Pack a "Free DLC" but really its just an optional patch.

On the subject on free. The Witcher: Enhanced Edition conversion patch had a hell of a lot more content then most DLC's.

I'm not ignoring the good. Its just that when talking about DLC's there is a lot more of the bad then the good.
Edited by Bit_reaper - 5/18/13 at 8:32pm
    
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post #203 of 225
The game is too easy on the normal Hardcore mode...breezing by it with little to no trouble. This ranger mode honestly should have been free and included with the game seeing as it's 100% likely it's already in the game data anyways.
post #204 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR Mclaren View Post

DLC = garbage

the "good" ones you are reffering were the ones called "expansions"...long gone...

Deus Ex: Human Revolution - The Missing Link
Skyrim - Dawnguard and Dragonborn
Fallout 3 and New Vegas - pretty much all of them
Borderlands - all of them
Borderlands 2 - so far so good
Battlefield 3 - All expansions/premium (gonna catch flak for this xD)
Forza Motorsport 3 & 4 - Car Packs
GTA 4 - Lost and Damned and Ballad of Gay Tony
Read Dead Redemption - Undead Nightmare
Mass Effect 2 - Lair of the Shadow Broker
Left4Dead & L4D2 - Cold Stream/ The Sacrifice
Portal 2 - Peer Review

Shall I go on? There's plenty more to list off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

So can I, that was not the point. The point was that more often then not the DLC's are a shameless money grab. True Bethesda has had a decent tack record when it comes to DLC's though even they have had there horse armor. Luckily most skyrim DLC's are made in the style of actual expansions.

Then there is the question what you actually classify as a "DLC". Steam calls the Skyrim: High Resolution Texture Pack a "Free DLC" but really its just an optional patch.

On the subject on free. The Witcher: Enhanced Edition conversion patch had a hell of a lot more content then most DLC's.

I'm not ignoring the good. Its just that when talking about DLC's there is a lot more of the bad then the good.

DLC is simply downloadable content. Whether it's free or paid for, if it's official additional content that you downloaded for a game, it's DLC. That High-Res texture pack can definitely be considered DLC.

I can understand someone being against specific DLCs and what certain developers choose to use for their DLCs, but there's nothing wrong with DLC itself. All you people are doing is making it mean something more than what it is.
post #205 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by moocowman View Post

Deus Ex: Human Revolution - The Missing Link
Skyrim - Dawnguard and Dragonborn
Fallout 3 and New Vegas - pretty much all of them
Borderlands - all of them
Borderlands 2 - so far so good
Battlefield 3 - All expansions/premium (gonna catch flak for this xD)
Forza Motorsport 3 & 4 - Car Packs
GTA 4 - Lost and Damned and Ballad of Gay Tony
Read Dead Redemption - Undead Nightmare
Mass Effect 2 - Lair of the Shadow Broker
Left4Dead & L4D2 - Cold Stream/ The Sacrifice
Portal 2 - Peer Review

Shall I go on? There's plenty more to list off.
DLC is simply downloadable content. Whether it's free or paid for, if it's official additional content that you downloaded for a game, it's DLC. That High-Res texture pack can definitely be considered DLC.

I can understand someone being against specific DLCs and what certain developers choose to use for their DLCs, but there's nothing wrong with DLC itself. All you people are doing is making it mean something more than what it is.

If that's the way you want to classify it. When Crysis 2 got its high res pack it was officially called a patch because that what it was. Also by your definition every time League of legends gets a new character its a DLC though they are officially called patches.

The reason I'm bringing this up is that a lot of people divide what you call DLC's into patches, DLC's/microtransactions and expansions. So when someone says all DLC's suck it has an slightly different meaning.
    
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post #206 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

If that's the way you want to classify it. When Crysis 2 got its high res pack it was officially called a patch because that what it was. Also by your definition every time League of legends gets a new character its a DLC though they are officially called patches.

The reason I'm bringing this up is that a lot of people divide what you call DLC's into patches, DLC's/microtransactions and expansions. So when someone says all DLC's suck it has an slightly different meaning.

Did you have to download the Crysis 2 patch or did it do it automatically? Now that I'm thinking about it.. the high-res pack for Skyrim might have been downloaded automatically as well so I might be wrong on that. Anyway, it's any official content that you manually download for a game. That's all DLC is.

All I'm saying is DLC itself doesn't suck. Having new content easily accessible is not a bad thing. It's just the way that some developers and publishers choose to use DLC that people should be hating. However, I know that many gamers would rather have the developers keep adding new content for games for free or spending more time to implement content before release so it's no extra cost to the consumer, despite the fact it still costs them time and money to develop that content.
post #207 of 225
Well, looks like I won't be buying Metro Last Light then.
post #208 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by moocowman View Post

Did you have to download the Crysis 2 patch or did it do it automatically? Now that I'm thinking about it.. the high-res pack for Skyrim might have been downloaded automatically as well so I might be wrong on that. Anyway, it's any official content that you manually download for a game. That's all DLC is.

All I'm saying is DLC itself doesn't suck. Having new content easily accessible is not a bad thing. It's just the way that some developers and publishers choose to use DLC that people should be hating. However, I know that many gamers would rather have the developers keep adding new content for games for free or spending more time to implement content before release so it's no extra cost to the consumer, despite the fact it still costs them time and money to develop that content.

Whether or not something downloads automatically is of little importance. Auto patching is a steam feature for many games and there are a lot of retail games that have to be manually patched. I get what you are saying about DLC's not being inherently bad. I agree that DLC's can be good and I'm more then happy to pay for good additional content.

The main issue that I have with DLC's is when they are in the style of micro-transactions.

Lets look at Killing floor as an example.

Base game price 17,99€

Downloadable Content For This Game

Killing Floor - Golden Weapons Pack 6,99€
Killing Floor - Robot Special Character Pack 3,99€
Killing Floor - Community Weapon Pack 5,99€
Killing Floor - The Chickenator Pack 3,99€
Killing Floor - Ash Harding Character Pack 3,99€
Killing Floor - Harold Lott Character Pack 3,99€
Killing Floor - Urban Nightmare Character Pack 1,99€
Killing Floor - Steampunk Character Pack 2 1,49€
Killing Floor: Steampunk Character Pack 1,49€
Killing Floor "London's Finest" Character Pack 1,49€
Killing Floor: PostMortem Character Pack 1,49€
Killing Floor: Nightfall Character Pack 1,49€
Killing Floor Outbreak Character Pack 1,79€

Total DLC cost: 40,17€

This is not freaking OK and unfortunately the way most DLC are made thees days.

Another thing that is never OK is day 1 DLC's. I don't care what the excuse is. If it was completed before the release date it should included with the base game. NO exceptions.

There should be a rule that says companies only get to release 1 Paid DLC a year so everything they want to add to the game that year has to be included in that one pack.
    
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post #209 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

Whether or not something downloads automatically is of little importance. Auto patching is a steam feature for many games and there are a lot of retail games that have to be manually patched. I get what you are saying about DLC's not being inherently bad. I agree that DLC's can be good and I'm more then happy to pay for good additional content.

The main issue that I have with DLC's is when they are in the style of micro-transactions.

Lets look at Killing floor as an example.

Base game price 17,99€

Downloadable Content For This Game

Killing Floor - Golden Weapons Pack 6,99€
Killing Floor - Robot Special Character Pack 3,99€
Killing Floor - Community Weapon Pack 5,99€
Killing Floor - The Chickenator Pack 3,99€
Killing Floor - Ash Harding Character Pack 3,99€
Killing Floor - Harold Lott Character Pack 3,99€
Killing Floor - Urban Nightmare Character Pack 1,99€
Killing Floor - Steampunk Character Pack 2 1,49€
Killing Floor: Steampunk Character Pack 1,49€
Killing Floor "London's Finest" Character Pack 1,49€
Killing Floor: PostMortem Character Pack 1,49€
Killing Floor: Nightfall Character Pack 1,49€
Killing Floor Outbreak Character Pack 1,79€

Total DLC cost: 40,17€

This is not freaking OK and unfortunately the way most DLC are made thees days.

Another thing that is never OK is day 1 DLC's. I don't care what the excuse is. If it was completed before the release date it should included with the base game. NO exceptions.

There should be a rule that says companies only get to release 1 Paid DLC a year so everything they want to add to the game that year has to be included in that one pack.

I was saying that because it's automatically patched that it wasn't DLC.. tongue.gif I thought I remembered downloading the high-res texture pack for Skyrim manually but then I remembered it was downloaded automatically, meaning it wasn't DLC. Basically I was admitting I was wrong about that. xD

I honestly don't mind Killing Floor's microtransaction form of DLC. Yes, there's lots of it but you don't actually have to buy all of it. That's the beauty of it.. you get to pick and choose which ones you want. You can buy one, you can buy them all, or you don't have to buy any since none of them affect gameplay. Then on top of it, there's plenty of free mods for the game as well and even has Steam Workshop integrated. IMHO, that is one of the better ways to do DLC.

I can see both sides of the argument for day one DLC. As long as it's not on-disc, it's not a big deal to me. To me, primary development of the game ends when it goes gold. After that, they're free to work on whatever extra content they want. This is just my opinion.

"There should be a rule that says companies only get to release 1 Paid DLC a year so everything they want to add to the game that year has to be included in that one pack."

Then the DLC will be super expensive and people will be less likely to buy it. It would also mean people wouldn't have a choice of not buying a certain DLC if it contains content they don't want. Using Killing Floor's DLC as an example, what if someone only wanted one or two of the skin packs? They would have to pay full price in order to get all of them, rather than just being able to pick and choose which ones they wanted.

Anywho.. this is getting super off-topic. tongue.gif
post #210 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by moocowman View Post

I was saying that because it's automatically patched that it wasn't DLC.. tongue.gif I thought I remembered downloading the high-res texture pack for Skyrim manually but then I remembered it was downloaded automatically, meaning it wasn't DLC. Basically I was admitting I was wrong about that. xD

I honestly don't mind Killing Floor's microtransaction form of DLC. Yes, there's lots of it but you don't actually have to buy all of it. That's the beauty of it.. you get to pick and choose which ones you want. You can buy one, you can buy them all, or you don't have to buy any since none of them affect gameplay. Then on top of it, there's plenty of free mods for the game as well and even has Steam Workshop integrated. IMHO, that is one of the better ways to do DLC.

I can see both sides of the argument for day one DLC. As long as it's not on-disc, it's not a big deal to me. To me, primary development of the game ends when it goes gold. After that, they're free to work on whatever extra content they want. This is just my opinion.

"There should be a rule that says companies only get to release 1 Paid DLC a year so everything they want to add to the game that year has to be included in that one pack."

Then the DLC will be super expensive and people will be less likely to buy it. It would also mean people wouldn't have a choice of not buying a certain DLC if it contains content they don't want. Using Killing Floor's DLC as an example, what if someone only wanted one or two of the skin packs? They would have to pay full price in order to get all of them, rather than just being able to pick and choose which ones they wanted.

Anywho.. this is getting super off-topic. tongue.gif

But that's the whole issue with thees small DLC's. They are not worth $1-2 a pop but as they are "only" $1-2 some people think what the heck. If they where actually forced to buy bigger packs then people would more easily realize how much they are spending. Micro transactions are all about tricking people to spend more. A big DLC does not need to be super expensive and it would not be super expensive as people would not perceive a few character and weapons (weapons that do in fact change game play) as worth more then the actual game.

Lets put this into perspective. A complete game was developed and priced at ~$20 that includes numerous guns, character, maps, all work on the game engine, net code ect. ect. How much of that $20 do you think represents a single character? It sure as hell ain't 1 or 2 $.

Further more DLC's are often not even worked on full time but are something to keep otherwise unneeded employees busy while the studio plans there next title.
Edited by Bit_reaper - 5/19/13 at 9:13am
    
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