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[itproportal] Secrets of the PlayStation 4: Seriously modified Radeon, turbocharged APU design - Page 2

post #11 of 75
is this like QuickSync for video transcoding where the gpu is many times faster than the cpu?
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post #12 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clairvoyant129 View Post

It's always something isn't it?

I linked you everything required to compare results to not only me, but with a large datasheet of other benchmarks. You can act like this all you want but you look rather foolish considering I went as far as to basically hand you the tools you need to disprove my claims and the best you can muster is "it's always something isn't it?" where you clearly missed a coma.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raclimja View Post

is this like QuickSync for video transcoding where the gpu is many times faster than the cpu?

No, this is all ran on the CPU, with optimized code. Since it is Gentoo, it's just GCC compiling the entire operating system with optimizations for Piledriver and to use additional instructions like AVX. It's not even HSA, GPGPU, OpenCL, or anything. The same code that's designed to run on everything in the world, basically. So it's just compiler optimizations, not programming optimizations.

I don't even have OpenCL set up on this rig and it's not an option for me in Blender prefs. However I have no incentive to get OpenCL Cycles working on here because I still use Blender Render as I need to bake textures.
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post #13 of 75
I smell a over hyped ps4..I remember when the ps3 was highly talked about and people thought that was going to be the best system look how that turned out..Doesnt matter tho im sticking to pc gaming
post #14 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

I linked you everything required to compare results to not only me, but with a large datasheet of other benchmarks. You can act like this all you want but you look rather foolish considering I went as far as to basically hand you the tools you need to disprove my claims and the best you can muster is "it's always something isn't it?" where you clearly missed a coma.
No, this is all ran on the CPU, with optimized code. Since it is Gentoo, it's just GCC compiling the entire operating system with optimizations for Piledriver and to use additional instructions like AVX. It's not even HSA, GPGPU, OpenCL, or anything. The same code that's designed to run on everything in the world, basically. So it's just compiler optimizations, not programming optimizations.

I don't even have OpenCL set up on this rig and it's not an option for me in Blender prefs. However I have no incentive to get OpenCL Cycles working on here because I still use Blender Render as I need to bake textures.

Is the performance increase just due to using AVX extensions or is it something else that AMD has done? If it's just using AVX than shouldn't both newer AMD and Intel chips see a similar performance boost seeing how both support AVX?
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post #15 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

It's great to see more details on how PS4 APU is going to be different. It looks like Sony and AMD have created something compatible with x86 but with features that would take forever to get adapted in a PC environment. I was a lot more excited for PS4 than most people, because I've seen the power of AVX on AMD (it brings my Blender BMW benchmark score from about 3:30 in Windows to 1:47 or so in Gentoo, beating a 4ghz 3930k in Windows), but this is just icing on the cake, really.

I think anyone who isn't expecting PS4 to be a very strong piece of hardware is going to be very surprised in the end.

If Jaguar matches IB in IPC and it's shipping in PS4 with 8 cores at 2Ghz, it's going to be comparable to a 4ghz 8 core Intel IB by the time everything is optimized and such extrapolating from my optimized Linux experience and unoptimized Windows GAMERZ environment. Heck, it might even be worth more if all these extra tweaks materialize into better CPU performance.

This chip is scary. In before Intel fanboy denial.

Maybe this will get some of you guys to believe in Linux + AMD performance



Now download Blender
http://www.blender.org/download

open this and render it
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?239480-2.61-Cycles-render-benchmark

Report time

If you are too lazy, here is a spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Atfi5YqN3LOqdEw2Rlcxa0RnZm4yY2tEMklINkJQbkE&type=view&gid=0&f=true&sortcolid=4&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

Notice how 5gthz FX 8350 is faster than two 2.4ghz Intel 8 core xeons? And I am just one lowly computer science major running Gentoo without changing any source or getting and special hardware. Everyone is going to be in for a very big and very unexpected surprised when their Intel Quads are humiliated by Jaguar running heavily optimized code. If AMD releases "AMD only binaries" with their Gaming Evolved games it's just going to to far, far worse for Intel.
Sounds good, but that spreadsheet link, what are you referring to? I don't even see a FX 8350 listed, much less what render times you're referring to (CPU, CUDA, or OpenCL).

Edit: Ok, so the link to blenderartists, and that google spreadsheet lists some FX 8350's, but "error" or "have to compile CUDA kernel", and render times doesn't seem too impressive... am I missing something?
Edited by El_Capitan - 5/14/13 at 1:03pm
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post #16 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Capitan View Post

Sounds good, but that spreadsheet link, what are you referring to? I don't even see a FX 8350 listed, much less what render times you're referring to (CPU, CUDA, or OpenCL).

You have to decipher his post.

The spreadsheet he posted is of Windows benchmarks, and he said:
Quote:
I've seen the power of AVX on AMD (it brings my Blender BMW benchmark score from about 3:30 in Windows to 1:47 or so in Gentoo, beating a 4ghz 3930k in Windows), but this is just icing on the cake, really.

I would like to know if Intel processors ( SB+ ) see any improvements as well in Gentoo?
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post #17 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by DETERMINOLOGY View Post

I smell a over hyped ps4..I remember when the ps3 was highly talked about and people thought that was going to be the best system look how that turned out..Doesnt matter tho im sticking to pc gaming

That's not a fair comparison.

The reason is the PS4 uses slightly modified 'off-the-shelf' hardware and technology from AMD, where AMD has had years to perfect the tech they use in the PS4. AMD has been making GPU/CPU hybrids for a few years now, leading up to the tech that is in Jaguar and the FM2 socket chips, and beyond.

The PS3 used a brand new system architecture, co-developed by IBM and Sony. The PS3 was literally the first system to use Cell practically, outside of testing.

If anything the PS4 will be a boon to PC gamers anyway because it's an x86 system.
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post #18 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

It's a little better than K8. Maybe about as good as Phenom according to another OCNer in the Temash benchmarks new topic.

Regarding the Jaguar CPU and some dilemmas link below. wink.gif

http://www.overclock.net/t/1362981/techpowerupamd-jaguar-micro-architecture-takes-the-fight-to-atom-with-avx-sse4-quad-core/50#post_19351019
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post #19 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch13f121 View Post


That's not a fair comparison.

The reason is the PS4 uses slightly modified 'off-the-shelf' hardware and technology from AMD, where AMD has had years to perfect the tech they use in the PS4. AMD has been making GPU/CPU hybrids for a few years now, leading up to the tech that is in Jaguar and the FM2 socket chips, and beyond. (Aka laptop CPU's)

The PS3 used a brand new system architecture, co-developed by IBM and Sony. The PS3 was literally the first system to use Cell practically, outside of testing.

If anything the PS4 will be a boon to PC gamers anyway because it's an x86 system.

 

need to put some of these components in their place. 

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post #20 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

You have to decipher his post.

The spreadsheet he posted is of Windows benchmarks, and he said:
I would like to know if Intel processors ( SB+ ) see any improvements as well in Gentoo?
Yeah, just saw that.

I'm excited for any optimization, but even with halving the CPU rendering time to 1:47, even a GTX 460 will still beat it using CUDA, and I'm sure an HD 7850 would even beat that using OpenCL. Even if Jaguar on Gentoo gets the rendering under a minute, it's still behind current API's being used for GPU rendering.
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i7 3930K C2 @ 4.8GHz BIOS 1404 (1.376V - 1.384V... ASUS Rampage IV Extreme with Koolance Waterblocks MSI R9 290X 4GB wih EK Copper 1200/1390 @ 1.3V'... 8 x 4GB Samsung Extreme Low Voltage 1866MHz @ 8... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2 x Crucial M4 512GB RAID 0 | Crucial M4 256GB ... LG Blue-Ray Burner WH10LS30 Windows 7 Professional x64 Dell 3007WFP 30"W 2560 x 1600 IPS 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Tesoro Durandal Ultimate G1NL LED Backlit Mecha... Corsair Professional Series AX1200 Xigamatek Elysium Logitech G500 
Mouse PadAudio
PureTrak Stealth Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD with LM... 
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Main Rig
(14 items)
 
Server
(9 items)
 
2nd Rig
(14 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3930K C2 @ 4.8GHz BIOS 4403 (1.392V - 1.400V... ASUS Rampage IV Extreme with Koolance Waterblocks Unlocked GTX 780 3GB with HeatKiller 1306/1597 ... 6 x 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws X 1866MHz @ 10-11-10-30... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2 x SanDisk Extreme 240GB RAID 0 | 2 x OCZ Ver... LITE-ON 12X Blu-Ray Burner IHBS112-04 Windows 7 Professional x64 HP ZR30W 30" 2560 x 1600 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Tesoro Durandal Ultimate G1NL LED Backlit Mecha... Corsair Professional Series AX1200 Mountain Mods Pinnacle 24 Logitech G500S 
Mouse PadAudio
PureTrak Stealth Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD with LM... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Dual XEON X5650 @2.67 GHz w/HT (12 Cores | 24 ... ASUS Z8NA-D6C  Gigabyte HD 4350 512MB 6 x 4GB Kingston KVR1066D3Q8R7SK2/8G 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
2 x Intel X25-M G2 160GB and 8 Disk Samsung Spi... LG DVD Burner GH20NS15 20X Windows Server 2012 Essentials x64 Seasonic 1000W Platinum 
Case
NZXT Source 210 Elite White 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3930K C2 @ 4.8GHz BIOS 1404 (1.376V - 1.384V... ASUS Rampage IV Extreme with Koolance Waterblocks MSI R9 290X 4GB wih EK Copper 1200/1390 @ 1.3V'... 8 x 4GB Samsung Extreme Low Voltage 1866MHz @ 8... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2 x Crucial M4 512GB RAID 0 | Crucial M4 256GB ... LG Blue-Ray Burner WH10LS30 Windows 7 Professional x64 Dell 3007WFP 30"W 2560 x 1600 IPS 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Tesoro Durandal Ultimate G1NL LED Backlit Mecha... Corsair Professional Series AX1200 Xigamatek Elysium Logitech G500 
Mouse PadAudio
PureTrak Stealth Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD with LM... 
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Reply
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [itproportal] Secrets of the PlayStation 4: Seriously modified Radeon, turbocharged APU design