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[itproportal] Secrets of the PlayStation 4: Seriously modified Radeon, turbocharged APU design - Page 5

post #41 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladcrooks View Post


I hope you are wrong - a single hd7970 @ 1080p struggles on most of the recent games that have come out, if you turn up the eye candy that is!

I'm sure the xbox and ps4 will benefit the pc gamer and about time too thumb.gif

A single 7970, 7950, 680, 670 are not everything when it comes to pure eyecandy graphics. That is why we have options like Titan, 690, 7990 or SLI/xfire.
Edited by sumitlian - 5/15/13 at 11:23am
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post #42 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch13f121 View Post

That's not a fair comparison.

The reason is the PS4 uses slightly modified 'off-the-shelf' hardware and technology from AMD, where AMD has had years to perfect the tech they use in the PS4. AMD has been making GPU/CPU hybrids for a few years now, leading up to the tech that is in Jaguar and the FM2 socket chips, and beyond.

The PS3 used a brand new system architecture, co-developed by IBM and Sony. The PS3 was literally the first system to use Cell practically, outside of testing.

Kinda reminds me how I programmed a 512 bit virtual processor with coding format that allowed easy conversion into transistors by an auto board designer program. (Aka no unnecessary indirection, no silly loops and long code that described it properly.) Any HW designer that has brain must be able to write correctly stuff that has not been made before and he has no experience with it.

The problem with Cell was they thought games are only about graphics, and part of Cell was basically highly programmable GFX card. The trouble is games are using a lot of CPU power, and Cell simply didn't deliver. Basically Cell looks like ARM, energy efficient, but it has it's quirks. Both Intel and AMD were much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

Not exactly. Its about both the GPU and CPU having direct access to the same memory and the ability to run compute on the GPU. As the memory is shared and the CPU/GPU has an fast interconnect its possible to run all sorts of extra functions on the GPU. What this allows is for more stuff to go back to the CPU.
Well one of advantages of current GFX cards is they are async which means GPU write will not stop CPU from accessing the RAM. When both CPU and GPU are accessing the RAM as a shared object, then there are race conditions.
Quote:
Well lets say you wanted to realistically simulated shrapnel damage in a game. Calculating the physics for hundreds of shrapnel pieces would require lots of CPU power and as getting stuff back for the GPU takes to much time so you can't reliably offload it to the GPU. Conclusion realistically simulated shrapnel damage is not possible on current gaming PC's.

But due to the way the PS4 is made it might be possible to make it work. So we might actually see a big push in GPU accelerated physics with the next gen titles.
You can use CPU for shrapnel simulation. In fact game 7.65 (sequel to brigade E5) did exactly that. The problem is when you want to have numerically accurate data, aka data where a cube would stay cube even after iteration n. 30, you need doubles. Doubles perform poorly on GFX cards.

Modelview space and simplified object spaces are often separated, because Modelview needs only local data in high detail, and the rest of the game mostly needs whole world, which means there must be some highly efficient map which will not require several GB of RAM. (Problems begins when a correctly made data map needs 3+ GB of RAM.) Basically GPU can stay in it's own space, and possible delay simply doesn't happen because of caching ahead. CPU is solving also its own stuff.

Not that majority of game developers would be able to write something as complicated because the new stuff from universities could at most write in LUA, instead of designing and writing its own algorithms. A lot of developers in industry who would be otherwise able to invent theirs own stuff, lost theirs skills because of excessive use of third party libraries and scripting. Basically industry matured, and developer abilities went AWOL.

They have it wrong. That 20GB/s is for bypassing caches, it's not about talk between CPU and GPU directly. The data still move into RAM, they just guarantee they gets into RAM with low latency and without creating possible problems with different versions in CPU and GPU caches, which should reduce number of synchronization problems. It introduces random looking hard to debug rare synchronization problems, which would happen for different reasons.

But hey, everyone likes PS4 freezing after a few hours of use.
post #43 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

That's funny because I play at 1080p and my HD7950 seems to be doing fine on a lot of recent games.

 

Was going to say the same but you said it for me. I don't struggle with any game currently, and didn't struggle when I used my R7950 with my old Phenom II 965BE either.

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post #44 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshield View Post

 

Was going to say the same but you said it for me. I don't struggle with any game currently, and didn't struggle when I used my R7950 with my old Phenom II 965BE either.

 

guess Crysis 3, Metro, and Tomb Raider didn't get the memo

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post #45 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by L36 View Post

I'm pretty sure it was confirmed somewhere that PS4 will be running a heavily modified windows 7 kernel as part of its PS4 OS, not Linux.

I'm surprised how many people (especially on OCN) get this wrong. As already stated, it's the development environment that runs in Windows... it's a .NET IDE, just like the PlayStation Mobile development platform. What this means is that the official PS4/PSMobile development suite runs in Windows - the games are developed in Windows. It does NOT mean that PS4 / PSVita run windows themselves.
post #46 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

guess Crysis 3, Metro, and Tomb Raider didn't get the memo

I don't have any trouble playing Crysis 3 or Tomb Raider. Can't speak for Metro as I don't own the new one. Can run the old one well enough though.
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post #47 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

guess Crysis 3, Metro, and Tomb Raider didn't get the memo

Metro runs fine on a single GTX 680, it's just AMD cards that have that issue and that's funny...A HD7970Ghz gets 45fps minmum at 1920x1200. Yes, that's with FXAA but you could easily have 4x proper AA on that with smooth frame-rates.

As for Crysis 3, it's a boring game anyway and designed to break new rigs on purpose. Barely counts.
    
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post #48 of 75
What do FMA and AVX do? What would they do for future applications?
post #49 of 75
Crysis 3 ain't boring to me. Speak for yourself...
post #50 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Metro runs fine on a single GTX 680, it's just AMD cards that have that issue and that's funny...A HD7970Ghz gets 45fps minmum at 1920x1200. Yes, that's with FXAA but you could easily have 4x proper AA on that with smooth frame-rates.

As for Crysis 3, it's a boring game anyway and designed to break new rigs on purpose. Barely counts.

So what about Max Payne 3, Batman: Arkham City, ARMA III or Witcher 2 do thous not count as well?
    
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