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4TB HDD - Any reason to hold off on these? - Page 3

post #21 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick1969 View Post

I'm sure it was only all of his family memories; kids births, wedding, etc. No need for you to care when there are 25 people in line and all....
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post

This is why I hate tech support ppl. I even hated myself when I was a 20 something gen x'er and in tech support lol.

This is what we speculated it was. And no I'm not happy he lost it, but at the same time if the data is important you should have backups. Thus, I have no sympathy either. I've lost a 500GB HD that was completely full and have nobody to blame but myself. All you can do is keep on moving. No point in crying over it because its not coming back no matter how many tears you shed. That's the brutal truth about being in tech support and data integrity. Back it up or don't care if you lose it.

Which really brings me to a point with the OP's question. IF you get the 4TB drive, be sure you have a backup plan. 320GB, 500GB, heck even the loss of a 1TB is gut wrenching but it still won't touch the loss of 4TB.
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post #22 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by NameUnknown View Post


This is what we speculated it was. And no I'm not happy he lost it, but at the same time if the data is important you should have backups. Thus, I have no sympathy either. I've lost a 500GB HD that was completely full and have nobody to blame but myself. All you can do is keep on moving. No point in crying over it because its not coming back no matter how many tears you shed. That's the brutal truth about being in tech support and data integrity. Back it up or don't care if you lose it.

Which really brings me to a point with the OP's question. IF you get the 4TB drive, be sure you have a backup plan. 320GB, 500GB, heck even the loss of a 1TB is gut wrenching but it still won't touch the loss of 4TB.
I understood what you were saying, but it's just that you were kinda bragging about it. Everyone knows you need to backup your data, but it does cost money. Plus, you know as well as I do, until you REALLY lose a hard drive, you don't fully appreciate backups and/or RAID.
post #23 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick1969 View Post

I understood what you were saying, but it's just that you were kinda bragging about it. Everyone knows you need to backup your data, but it does cost money. Plus, you know as well as I do, until you REALLY lose a hard drive, you don't fully appreciate backups and/or RAID.
I see what you mean, it did sound a bit like a brag. More of a memory that popped into my head I thought I'd share...probably could have worded it differently.

Here at work though, I can say with pretty good certainty from talking with customers that the ones with backups have them because they lost a drive in the past or know someone that did. For us it seems so fundamental, for so many others its not even a blip on the radar screen.
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post #24 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick1969 View Post

I understood what you were saying, but it's just that you were kinda bragging about it. Everyone knows you need to backup your data, but it does cost money. Plus, you know as well as I do, until you REALLY lose a hard drive, you don't fully appreciate backups and/or RAID.

Meh...I still don't appreciate RAID, but then back in my noobish days I had my main storage on a RAID 5 so I didn't think a back up was all that necessary and then I lost two drives in the array at the same time some how.

Backups to separate hard ware is the only way to go in my opinion (and experience). If you want to have a RAID by all means have it, but I would not use it for the only backup. The only RAID I will ever run for personal use is RAID 0. I will take backup software making two copies of everything over RAID 1 or 10 (which then gives you some load balancing ability to read from different sources as well). I mean that is all the fault tolerance RAID is doing anyway. Corporate or business use it is a different story because I don't want to have to baby sit back up software doing all sorts of backups and popping in a new drive when one fails is just so much easier...just have the software grab the important stuff.
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post #25 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

... because I don't want to have to baby sit back up software doing all sorts of backups....
Man I remember those days.... Glad I don't do that anymore. I'll still take some RAID 5 in addition to my backup when I can...
post #26 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehdi View Post

Technically that is true, however TV and Movies can be re-downloaded since it's not precious data. 3 more 2TB drives means more cables, more bays being used up, and it reducing the longevity of the HDDs, since you'll replace a 2TB sooner than needing to replace a 4TB.

If I do get concerned about the hassle of having to recall what I lost, I could write a powershell script that just backs up a "list" of all episodes and movies that exist at the time of capture, which outputs to another drive. That way, in case of failure, I just reload up the download queue.

I've got a list of all my media stuff as well as md5 hashes so that's not the issue. I rip my own disks and having to re-rip 4TB worth of data is a very time-consuming process (several months worth of weekend work). I can do it but frankly, I put more value on my time than the $180 that buying an extra drive will cost. Besides, some of the anime subs and Asian dramas I downloaded before can't even be found online anymore (at least outside of crappy YouTube vids).

That said, 1:1 backup is something I find unnecessary for replaceable media and implementation would have been prohibitively expensive at the time I built my file server. This is why I opted for a RAID5-like solution (unRAID). If I lose 1 drive, I can recover data from that drive. I lose 2 or more drives, at least the data on the other drives are still safe whereas I'd have lost the contents of the entire array with RAID5.
Edited by rui-no-onna - 5/15/13 at 12:17pm
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post #27 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick1969 View Post

Man I remember those days.... Glad I don't do that anymore. I'll still take some RAID 5 in addition to my backup when I can...

RAID 5 is the one to avoid. We set up RAID 1 and 10 all the time, but no matter how many disks you have in the RAID 5 array...if you loose more than one at a time (which seems to happen more than rarely for some reason) you cannot rebuild the array.

For corporate use I think RAID 10 is much better because when a drive dies the users can keep going and the underpaid IT peon will just slam another drive in the NAS when they get around to it. For home use I would rather just have a second copy of everything that I can access instead one that I can't until one drive fails. Works well since if my wife and kids are watching something different off the storage drive in the server I can just use the backup storage. Then my software will make sure both sides are the same later on and then I don't have to deal with any complaints about a movie lagging or anything since there was so much activity on the one drive. Three HD movies being read ( or wrote if I am ripping) to a 7200K RAID 0 array on the old PC that runs my FreeNAS can actually cause some hiccups. I am sure if I had better hardware it would be fine though.
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post #28 of 41
^^Concur I dislike RAID 5 too. RAID 6 is sort of cost prohibitive.


I keep some articles on statistics of data loss handy. It was very useful during my consultancy days. Non-IT ppl have no clue about data loss and often the job entails educating those we interact with. It's gut wrenching when you lose personal and irreplaceable data. And when you can get ppl to understand this, the money obstacle fades. In my book, its just money. But those pics of whatever special moments or video with friends etc, those cannot be replaced.

I've actually consulted for SMBs that never survived a data loss. One was an architectural firm of a friend of a friend, that I worked with for sometime but I had left for whatever reason back then. I remember them specifically because they had a RAID 5 array and no stable backup. The person they brought in didn't put enough emphasis on the array backups so when it went down and I knew it would go down they were screwed. I still remember the call from the tech they brought in. Help! Explaining RAID Reconstructor over the phone is a pain. In the end the guy said screw it and that business went under.
Quote:
And the penalties for being unprepared can be mighty steep: The American Red Cross, among others, estimates that as many as 40% of SMBs simply never reopen after a disaster such as a flood, tornado, or earthquake. In many of those cases, of course, insurance covers replacement of physical assets. But if companies haven't protected their digital assets, such as critical financial and customer information, they may be out of luck -- and out of business.

http://www.inc.com/articles/2004/05/datadisasters.html
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post #29 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NameUnknown View Post


This is what we speculated it was. And no I'm not happy he lost it, but at the same time if the data is important you should have backups. Thus, I have no sympathy either. I've lost a 500GB HD that was completely full and have nobody to blame but myself. All you can do is keep on moving. No point in crying over it because its not coming back no matter how many tears you shed. That's the brutal truth about being in tech support and data integrity. Back it up or don't care if you lose it.

Which really brings me to a point with the OP's question. IF you get the 4TB drive, be sure you have a backup plan. 320GB, 500GB, heck even the loss of a 1TB is gut wrenching but it still won't touch the loss of 4TB.

I've lost data before. In fact, ALL my drives at once, when my MB's sata controller fragged them all somehow. It was crappy, but I recovered since most data is in the cloud now adays anyways tongue.gif

Honestly, losing an entire 4TB like I mentioned in another post just means I need to redownload it all. Instead of spending an extra $200, I just back up a file list to keep track of what i need to re-download. With a 50/25 FIOS, that is just a few days of time.

All my games are on steam, and most games backup to the steam cloud.

All my personal data (My Documents folder) are backed up onto my 500gb drive, the most crucial of which gets synced to the google drive smile.gif.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

I've got a list of all my media stuff as well as md5 hashes so that's not the issue. I rip my own disks and having to re-rip 4TB worth of data is a very time-consuming process (several months worth of weekend work). I can do it but frankly, I put more value on my time than the $180 that buying an extra drive will cost. Besides, some of the anime subs and Asian dramas I downloaded before can't even be found online anymore (at least outside of crappy YouTube vids).

That said, 1:1 backup is something I find unnecessary for replaceable media and implementation would have been prohibitively expensive at the time I built my file server. This is why I opted for a RAID5-like solution (unRAID). If I lose 1 drive, I can recover data from that drive. I lose 2 or more drives, at least the data on the other drives are still safe whereas I'd have lost the contents of the entire array with RAID5.
If I were in your shoes I would do the same.
Edited by Mehdi - 5/15/13 at 1:41pm
post #30 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehdi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by NameUnknown View Post


This is what we speculated it was. And no I'm not happy he lost it, but at the same time if the data is important you should have backups. Thus, I have no sympathy either. I've lost a 500GB HD that was completely full and have nobody to blame but myself. All you can do is keep on moving. No point in crying over it because its not coming back no matter how many tears you shed. That's the brutal truth about being in tech support and data integrity. Back it up or don't care if you lose it.

Which really brings me to a point with the OP's question. IF you get the 4TB drive, be sure you have a backup plan. 320GB, 500GB, heck even the loss of a 1TB is gut wrenching but it still won't touch the loss of 4TB.

I've lost data before. In fact, ALL my drives at once, when my MB's sata controller fragged them all somehow. It was crappy, but I recovered since most data is in the cloud now adays anyways tongue.gif

Honestly, losing an entire 4TB like I mentioned in another post just means I need to redownload it all. Instead of spending an extra $200, I just back up a file list to keep track of what i need to re-download. With a 50/25 FIOS, that is just a few days of time.

All my games are on steam, and most games backup to the steam cloud.

All my personal data (My Documents folder) are backed up onto my 500gb drive, the most crucial of which gets synced to the google drive smile.gif.

well as long as all youyr personal data is backed up and your not worried about downloading all your games if something goes wrong, then if you need that space go fo it.
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