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[Ars] Apple was “ringmaster” in conspiracy to fix e-book prices, US says - Page 3

post #21 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by xBlitzerx View Post

I can't wait until writers wise up and just drop publishers altogether. Just write a book, copyright it and release it yourself online.

I'll never pay more than $10 for a book. I'm only going to read it once, maybe twice within 5 years.

Unfortunately, they're not going to. Because publishers are supposed to be advertisers and promoters for the book so they work to get a larger audience than just some person selling a book from their basement. After all, this is why music from record labels still beats out sales from bands/artists on places like bandcamp.
     
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post #22 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by nubbinator View Post

Can we just launch an antitrust investigation into Apple already? Don't get me wrong, they make some attractive and good products, but the amount of bullying the market that Apple does is getting absurd. Apple needs to go back to early days with Wozniak where there was a push for innovation, love of technology, and making stuff that could be hacked and modified by the end user instead of the greedy, profit driven, walled garden Steve Jobs model.

Honestly, it seems like half the time I see Apple in the news, it's either some asinine patent lawsuit, them bullying the market and trying to fix prices, or them bullying a company to get exclusivity.

You're pointing the finger at the wrong people. Markets need bullying, period. Apple's bullying of cell carriers is superior than that of any company. Apple's bullying of the music industry paved the way and literally saved it. And hopefully Apple's bullying will work on the likes of the cable tv market next and open new doors. Mega corporations like AT&T, Verizon, Time Warner, etc are absolutely massive and powerful. Apple has been able to disrupt things and its beneficial to everyone.
post #23 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

The same reason that we aren't offered flac, 24bit 92+kHZ music (outside of most people having crappy myself included sound set ups) and why we aren't offered bluray quality streaming or downloads as well. Fear of consolidating and therefore narrowing an income base from multiple formats that most people would rather pay twice for than convert from one to another.

As much as businesses get too much of a bad rep...they sometimes deserve it.

i will pay full paperback price for something in that format. too much stuff is simply still unavailable in ebook form. the thing is i don't understand why it is simply not offered or 2x as much.

i cannot even resale
post #24 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigatel View Post

You're pointing the finger at the wrong people. Markets need bullying, period. Apple's bullying of cell carriers is superior than that of any company. Apple's bullying of the music industry paved the way and literally saved it. And hopefully Apple's bullying will work on the likes of the cable tv market next and open new doors. Mega corporations like AT&T, Verizon, Time Warner, etc are absolutely massive and powerful. Apple has been able to disrupt things and its beneficial to everyone.

I wouldn't disagree with you about markets needing bullying, but I would on several of those points about Apple bullying for the betterment of the market. Apple's bullying of the cell carriers didn't really help, they only really did anything when their lack of service with AT&T started to become a PR nightmare. If anything, their bullying of cell phone companies has made things worse as we see more and more locked down cell phones coming out and that becoming the norm. The hype that they created surrounding their iPhone did finally help get smartphones the attention they needed, but they haven't innovated on cell phones since and have only made things worse for consumers.

I'm not sure I'd say their bullying of record labels saved the industry as there were many independent labels that were already doing well on the digital front and were paving the way. What they did do though was slap a little bit of sense into record labels. Of course, they then moved to a completely locked down model that made things worse for the consumer and the industry.

And Apple's bullying of the cable TV market will only result in a more locked down market, though with a different direction. Amazon and Netflix are already doing huge things with the television model and are working toward making it better for everyone (with a bias toward Amazons ecosystem, to be fair), while Apple gravitates to trying to lock everyone into their ecosystem.

Even if Apple has helped a little with their bullying, the end result is always the same, they bully to try and force people into their walled garden and make it so that their services are impossible or difficult to use outside of their very specific playground.
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post #25 of 37
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Originally Posted by WhiteCrane View Post

For now, yes. While the tech is new. The trend will not continue. The copyright holder isn't going to pass the savings of not having to print a physical book on to you. They'll just pad their profits. I just bought a book hard cover for half what the ebook cost (kindle store). My book can be shared with anyone I want without having to lend them a $100 e-reader, and when I am done with it I will re-sell it used, allowing someone else to buy it for $5.00, even less than kindle, a second time. Now 2 people got the book and the copyright holder only sold 1 copy. Uh-oh!

IF you sell your physical book how are you going to get the epeen satisfaction of not having your bookcase filled up? tongue.gif

Really if you wanna share your book, connect someone elses e-reader to your PC and move the book over, simple as that. Books are heavy if you like to carry more then one at one time, bookmarkers fall out, pages can get damaged easily. Plus ereader is easier to read from.

Plus you can get good number of books for 99c, also Amazon isnt the only place to get them. Plus for some the pirate factor also kicks in. devil.gif

Can't wait till we no longer have text books in schools, why should kids have to carry around 4-5 big text books when they could easily fit everything onto a single device for all to access?

I remember almost breaking my back bring my backpack home when I was a kid, somedays bring 5 big text books really takes a toll. Would go though a backpack every 3 months. What would be better buying a single cheap reader or buying backpack after backpack? Though I went to a parochial school so kids at public school may not get as much homework as I did.

Most could care less about reselling a book, I give mine away not sell them if I don't want to keep it.
Edited by DzillaXx - 5/15/13 at 10:12pm
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post #26 of 37
If you eliminate physical stock, prices will rise. That's my point.its happening right now. I regularly find hard cover books for less than their eBook equivalent.
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post #27 of 37
I'm going to say something heretical so just bare with me.


Apple really isn't the ringmaster in this conspiracy. They may be involved but it takes a lot more than apple to push around a well established medium like printed books. This is one time I can really say I don't believe Apple is totally at fault here. I think the publishers saw the chance to make some serious cash and didn't have to be pushed at all.
 
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post #28 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteCrane View Post

If you eliminate physical stock, prices will rise. That's my point.its happening right now. I regularly find hard cover books for less than their eBook equivalent.

The reason for this is two fold, a consumer public that is ignorant and an industry trying to use a supply and demand model for digital media.

Look book costs are set when it comes to ebooks. The cost is the initial fee paid to the writer, editors, final formatting. Now add to this the initial book promotion and any translations that are needed and the ebook costs are done. The problem is these are not all costs of the ebook, all of these costs are shared with the paperback, hard cover and audio book as well.

The other formats now have additional costs for their production but the ebook production costs stop here. This is where the consumer ignorance and an outdated supply and demand model kick in.

Under supply and demand as the demand goes up the cost can rise do to the costs to increase the supply. This however fails at the ebook or digital media level because there is zero cost for supply outside the initial cost of production. Thus if the demand is 100 copies or 1 billion copies there is no extra costs associated with the ebook sales based on numbers.

Now based on this model, if the publishers and book sellers insist on holding to supply and demand, ebooks would have a reverse pricing scenario. As sales go up the cost of the book would reduced because the profit margins would increase drastically as all sales after a set level are 100% profit. This is where the ignorance of the consumer comes in because if we knew that we would be raising nine levels of hell about digital media pricing.

I am not opposed to early adapter pricing, this means when a book or such is first released the price is high. The idea is to recoup the initial cost as quickly as possible. So an ebook at first release being say $15 is not to me a big deal. However in the book world 6 months to a year into sales the prices on books plummet. The initial sales are done and this move is made to keep sales going. The same should happen to an ebook, drop that price to say $5. Now if sales come back up, unlike other book formats where a piece of the price pie has to be taken out for perhaps another production run to match demand, the ebook price can stay stable because there is no additional run cost.

Digital media is a new shopping frontier and the publishing companies should adapt, but until the public gets educated on this and actually acres they do not have to adapt because people keep paying stupid pricing models.
post #29 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar63 View Post

The reason for this is two fold, a consumer public that is ignorant and an industry trying to use a supply and demand model for digital media.

Look book costs are set when it comes to ebooks. The cost is the initial fee paid to the writer, editors, final formatting. Now add to this the initial book promotion and any translations that are needed and the ebook costs are done. The problem is these are not all costs of the ebook, all of these costs are shared with the paperback, hard cover and audio book as well.

The other formats now have additional costs for their production but the ebook production costs stop here. This is where the consumer ignorance and an outdated supply and demand model kick in.

Under supply and demand as the demand goes up the cost can rise do to the costs to increase the supply. This however fails at the ebook or digital media level because there is zero cost for supply outside the initial cost of production. Thus if the demand is 100 copies or 1 billion copies there is no extra costs associated with the ebook sales based on numbers.

Now based on this model, if the publishers and book sellers insist on holding to supply and demand, ebooks would have a reverse pricing scenario. As sales go up the cost of the book would reduced because the profit margins would increase drastically as all sales after a set level are 100% profit. This is where the ignorance of the consumer comes in because if we knew that we would be raising nine levels of hell about digital media pricing.

I am not opposed to early adapter pricing, this means when a book or such is first released the price is high. The idea is to recoup the initial cost as quickly as possible. So an ebook at first release being say $15 is not to me a big deal. However in the book world 6 months to a year into sales the prices on books plummet. The initial sales are done and this move is made to keep sales going. The same should happen to an ebook, drop that price to say $5. Now if sales come back up, unlike other book formats where a piece of the price pie has to be taken out for perhaps another production run to match demand, the ebook price can stay stable because there is no additional run cost.

Digital media is a new shopping frontier and the publishing companies should adapt, but until the public gets educated on this and actually acres they do not have to adapt because people keep paying stupid pricing models.


My god someone gets that S and D curve doesn't work with digital products in the same way as physical goods.
 
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post #30 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

Unfortunately, they're not going to. Because publishers are supposed to be advertisers and promoters for the book so they work to get a larger audience than just some person selling a book from their basement. After all, this is why music from record labels still beats out sales from bands/artists on places like bandcamp.

Which is dumb...I've never seen any book I've read get promoted in any way. Well, I've met some of the authors at conventions and book signings I guess, but I don't think a person needs a publisher to set up things like that.
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