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Should i wait for haswell or build a bew comp right now? - Page 2

post #11 of 23
I think the main thing you have to ask yourself is if you want to build on a dead socket or the new socket.
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post #12 of 23
Why not buy IB, return it when haswell comes out or sell it for some profit and buy haswell?

Unless you are a super busy person or look at building a computer as a chore. I'm selling one of my computer components every week and testing out something new, and I usually make a profit in the upgrade. You just have to buy your components at the right places, the right sales.

But for gaming a Haswell i5 will be a comparatively binned SB-E or IB i7, given how software is much slower than hardware and terribly optimized. If all you are doing is TF2 than why would you buy anything more than an i3.
Quote:
I think the main thing you have to ask yourself is if you want to build on a dead socket or the new socket.

Sorry I don't agree with this sort of sentiment at all. All sockets are practically dead anyways, because the chipsets are what changes from chip to chip. So Z87 comes out, at best you can buy Haswell and then broadwell, but a single generation up is never worth it (of course, like I said earlier, just sell it and buy new tech, but from a cost standpoint). And it's not even that good, because when Broadwell releases, there will be new chipsets, so you will be missing features.

No one who bought P67 or even Z68 replaced their Sandy with an Ivy, they either sold their SB+P67/z68 and got an IB+Z77, or their didn't bother because a single generation up wasn't worth it. You don't see people with P67 boards saying "Thank god I didn't buy a dead socket!".

Now it might be useless features, for example going from P67 SB to IB you don't really miss anything that the vast majority of people care about, but then when it came to AM2+, you are running a new Phenom II on DDR2 ram which is total crap.

Or maybe you look at Am3+ boards - yay, going from bulldozer to piledriver to steamroller. Wow, that's so cool, a 'future proof' socket for a crappy CPU for gaming (of course, FX has it's virtues in speciality multi-threaded workstation tasks performance per $).

Replace the chip, you replace the motherboard, and if you are smart, you sell the hardware off for the same or more than what you paid for it in the first place. It's patently stupid to care about 'dead sockets' or anything like that. Hardware will always get outdated. If you buy sockets or hardware on the premise of 'future proofing' then you are going to be wasting a ton of money for zero gain in performance and always dissapointed.
Edited by Belial - 5/16/13 at 4:17pm
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post #13 of 23
You do realize in his sig rig he has a 2500K right?
So why waste money on Ivy when he could just pick up a new mobo for that chip.

Like I said before Haswell, or fix what you got. Plus he could upgrade to a broadwell i7 if he gets a haswell i5, would be a solid upgrade after he sells the old chip to make up for cost.
Also plenty of people are using P67/z68 boards with ivy


Also if he is going to get a i3 he might as well get a FX6300 as it is better then the i3 in pretty much every way.
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post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

You do realize in his sig rig he has a 2500K right?
So why waste money on Ivy when he could just pick up a new mobo for that chip.

Like I said before Haswell, or fix what you got. Plus he could upgrade to a broadwell i7 if he gets a haswell i5, would be a solid upgrade after he sells the old chip to make up for cost.
Also plenty of people are using P67/z68 boards with ivy


Also if he is going to get a i3 he might as well get a FX6300 as it is better then the i3 in pretty much every way.

In multithreaded apps definitely but not that cut and dry in gaming
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post #15 of 23
Quote:
You do realize in his sig rig he has a 2500K right?
So why waste money on Ivy when he could just pick up a new mobo for that chip.

Yes...

Because there is no 'waste' of money. Besides the fact you can still return your IB+Z77 due to the 30 day return period for no loss, if you buy them at the right place, say MC, you can just buy IB right now ($169+100) and then just sell it on ebay for $190+150, make a small profit, and then just buy IB. Or hell, let's say you actually lose money, so what, $20 to rent IB isn't a bad deal at all.

You people act like when you are done with a computer or upgrade, that you must throw it in the trash can.

Like I said, you should wait on Haswell, but technically there's not really any cost so why not just get IB and then sell it off/return it whatever, and get Haswell when it comes out.
Quote:
Like I said before Haswell, or fix what you got. Plus he could upgrade to a broadwell i7 if he gets a haswell i5, would be a solid upgrade after he sells the old chip to make up for cost.
Also plenty of people are using P67/z68 boards with ivy

Broadwell will arrive with a new chipset, no one is going to upgrade to Broadwell from Haswell on their 'old' Z87, or, they are just going to sell their Haswell+Z87 and buy Broadwell+Z97. Broadwell will hardly be a large upgrade over haswell, it's never 'worth it' to go just a single generation up. But like I said, buy haswell + z87, then sell it when broadwell comes out, and if you buy it smart like from the right place at the right sale (black friday?), you can even make a profit.

I paid $209 for my i7, $80 for my UD5H. When Haswell comes out, I'll sell my i7-3770k for at least $250 on ebay, and then my UD5H for at least $100 on ebay. I'll buy haswell with it. Do I need haswell Hell no, my athlon ii X3 was more than powerful for the high end games I play and stream. But I made a profit selling my Athlon ii x3 over what I paid for it, and literally upgraded to an i7-3770k for no cost.
Quote:
lso if he is going to get a i3 he might as well get a FX6300 as it is better then the i3 in pretty much every way.

Yes, I know, it's a point. The Phenom X4 is better than the FX6300 in value in pretty much every way, if you want to get technical all he should buy for TF2 is a Phenom X4 and heatsink and am3 board off geeks for $40 and spend the rest on a graphics card.
Quote:
In multithreaded apps definitely but not that cut and dry in gaming

Since you can't significantly overclock the i3 I'd say the Phenom X4, is a better buy, even for gaming, including the cost of the heatsink and better motherboard, particularly due to the strength of the AMD chips in multi-threaded applications (so OC phenom/fx vs i3 is edge by edge in gaming, but huge boost in multithreaded applications for AMD, and with an overclock for gaming the amd will be slightly better in most gmaes). Now if there was a K edition i3 it'd be totally different. The FX chips are too expensive though, I'd definitely say for gaming the i3 is a better value. Just the Phenom x4 imo is still the best value lower end chip.
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post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post


Yes, I know, it's a point. The Phenom X4 is better than the FX6300 in value in pretty much every way, if you want to get technical all he should buy for TF2 is a Phenom X4 and heatsink and am3 board off geeks for $40 and spend the rest on a graphics card.
Since you can't significantly overclock the i3 I'd say the Phenom X4, is a better buy, even for gaming, including the cost of the heatsink and better motherboard, particularly due to the strength of the AMD chips in multi-threaded applications (so OC phenom/fx vs i3 is edge by edge in gaming, but huge boost in multithreaded applications for AMD, and with an overclock for gaming the amd will be slightly better in most gmaes). Now if there was a K edition i3 it'd be totally different. The FX chips are too expensive though, I'd definitely say for gaming the i3 is a better value. Just the Phenom x4 imo is still the best value lower end chip.


The fx6300 is a better then any Phenom II 4 or 6 core. IMO
Overclocking to 4.6-4.8ghz is pretty common for those chip to accomplish as well.

My bro has a i3 3220 in his PC. My q9550 @ 4ghz will beat it in any benchmark, so really thats like a phenom II x4 @ 4.2ghz. Getting a phenom II to 4.2ghz isn't as easy as getting a FX6300 to 4.8ghz. A 6 core phenom II @ 4.2ghz goes back and forth with a 4.8ghz fx6300. Now that the FX6350 is out and probably overclocks slightly better getting 5ghz on a chip like that might not be that hard.


Problem with the i3 is that it can't OC, and you can OC AMD chips. If you not going to overclock the Phenom or FX, then the i3 is the thing to get. Only reason why I got my bro the i3 TBH.
Edited by DzillaXx - 5/16/13 at 5:15pm
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post #17 of 23
No need to wait for Haswell.

Go ahead and build your computer now.
post #18 of 23
I agree with a lot that has been said, but come on, Haswell, is virtually at our back door, patience is virtue they say . And I myself would hold back and check it out. Buying, then returning, patience is not my virtue tongue.gif
post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Haswell
Old tech is old tech bra tongue.gif
More IPC means more FPS on IPC dependent games.

The difference between haswell and ivy is about the same as sandy to ivy if not slightly more. Also has new instructions that can speed some tasks up by 20%. Plus you will be able to upgrade later on if you wanted, 1155 is a dead socket now. Really only reason to think about ivy is for budget reasons.

I wouldn't be surprised if the memory controller is better as well, along with more sata III ports (may perform better as well)

The difference between haswell and ivy will be the same or more as sandy bridge to ivy ? You know for sure ? I'm really asking because some benchmarks on the news sites show only marginal increases from haswell over ivy.
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by andre02 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Haswell
Old tech is old tech bra tongue.gif
More IPC means more FPS on IPC dependent games.

The difference between haswell and ivy is about the same as sandy to ivy if not slightly more. Also has new instructions that can speed some tasks up by 20%. Plus you will be able to upgrade later on if you wanted, 1155 is a dead socket now. Really only reason to think about ivy is for budget reasons.

I wouldn't be surprised if the memory controller is better as well, along with more sata III ports (may perform better as well)

The difference between haswell and ivy will be the same or more as sandy bridge to ivy ? You know for sure ? I'm really asking because some benchmarks on the news sites show only marginal increases from haswell over ivy.

i belive it will be marginal, maybe 6% or so but nothing spectacular.

[edit] i see stuff like this and wonder is haswell really that bad
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2319027

I guess i would wait for some more mainstream reviews to judge for myself
Edited by stubass - 5/17/13 at 1:19am
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Going to be chaep
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Wife's Rig
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i7-3770k Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UP5 TH MSI GTX460 G.Skill TridentX 2400 2 x 4GB 
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Plextor M5p 128GB 2 x WD 500GB Blues LG Prolimatech Megahalems Rev C 
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Coolermaster HAF 912 advanced (Asia version) 
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