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[Ars] Google: “Take down your ad-free YouTube app” Microsoft: “Let us add ads” - Page 2

post #11 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

^ Google didn't "give" them an app. In fact, Google haven't given them ANY apps. They wrote that old, pitiful web wrapper.

Also, FYI, remember the IE Browser Choice thing? When it went missing for a day and they had to pay an astronomical fine due to antitrust? Yeah, that was Google. I'm 90% this would also apply to antitrust.
And again, please tell me where they broke them before the TWO times where they blocked the Google APIs by being accessed by MS?

I don't think that is correct. I can name about 8 browsers off the top of my head, not including mobile ones. I have also not seen any evidence that Google was the push for this, nor would it be a bad thing if they did.

Microsoft didn't get in trouble for forgetting it for one day. It doesn't work like that. Microsoft are still on corporate probation and got in trouble for violating that "probation". They are being punished for past mistakes and got in trouble again for not following through with agreed terms of that punishment.

Google has the right to sell, or give away, a service to whomever they choose.

It seems to be you are on a pro-Microsoft, anti-Google stance, which is alright, but an even keeled mind set would be more beneficial.
Edited by RagingCain - 5/16/13 at 9:02am
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post #12 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

^ Google didn't "give" them an app. In fact, Google haven't given them ANY apps. They wrote that old, pitiful web wrapper.

Also, FYI, remember the IE Browser Choice thing? When it went missing for a day and they had to pay an astronomical fine due to antitrust? Yeah, that was Google. I'm 90% this would also apply to antitrust.
And again, please tell me where they broke them before the TWO times where they blocked the Google APIs by being accessed by MS?

Like I said you were right in that part, there were no previous violations by MS before the Youtube issues started.

What I meant by Google "gave" them and iOS a "poor" app is that they didn't give them a good one (or one at all) because they honestly had no obligation to do so. Why should I have to make an app for YOUR OS that lets your users use my service? If your users want a particular good app for their devices, it's all on you to provide it to them, whether that means making it yourself or paying the provider of the service (Youtube) to get one made. If MS can do it fine on the Xbox, what's stopping them from doing it on WP? What's stopping them from simply embedding Youtube videos into a more well designed app? "We just need permission to access YouTube in the way that other phones already do, permission Google has refused to provide." WHAT permission? You already do it on your Xbox. I'm not concluding anything. We have to wait and see what Google responds with to make further judgement. I just don't see why MS can't just bring in the ads. When you embed a video from Youtube into any forum, the ad plays. They seem to intentionally be avoiding the ad stream.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 5/16/13 at 8:59am
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post #13 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

^ Google didn't "give" them an app. In fact, Google haven't given them ANY apps. They wrote that old, pitiful web wrapper.

Also, FYI, remember the IE Browser Choice thing? When it went missing for a day and they had to pay an astronomical fine due to antitrust? Yeah, that was Google. I'm 90% this would also apply to antitrust.
And again, please tell me where they broke them before the TWO times where they blocked the Google APIs by being accessed by MS?

Google has the right to sell, or give away, a service to whomever they choose. Microsoft didn't get in trouble for forgetting it for one day. It doesn't work like that. Microsoft are still on corporate probation and got in trouble for violating that "probation". They are being punished for past mistakes and got in trouble again for not following through with agreed terms of that punishment.

It seems to be you are on a pro-Microsoft, anti-Google stance, which is alright, but an even keeled mind set would be more beneficial.
I'm defending MS in this point because I've seen nothing that makes me think "hey, this is actually right. Maybe MS ARE being a bit greedy. Maybe it's not Google's fault.

I've tried to be non-biased when reading the article. I wasn't sure at first. Looked a bit more into it. My conclusion was: MS is right here.

To the ad point which is getting trumpeted: Go to the YT mobile site. Watch a vid that has an ad on desktop. See any ads? I don't.

Also it'd be helpful if you also read my edit. Thanks smile.gif
Edited by 3930K - 5/16/13 at 9:02am
post #14 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

^ Google didn't "give" them an app. In fact, Google haven't given them ANY apps. They wrote that old, pitiful web wrapper.

Also, FYI, remember the IE Browser Choice thing? When it went missing for a day and they had to pay an astronomical fine due to antitrust? Yeah, that was Google. I'm 90% this would also apply to antitrust.
And again, please tell me where they broke them before the TWO times where they blocked the Google APIs by being accessed by MS?

Google has the right to sell, or give away, a service to whomever they choose. Microsoft didn't get in trouble for forgetting it for one day. It doesn't work like that. Microsoft are still on corporate probation and got in trouble for violating that "probation". They are being punished for past mistakes and got in trouble again for not following through with agreed terms of that punishment.

It seems to be you are on a pro-Microsoft, anti-Google stance, which is alright, but an even keeled mind set would be more beneficial.
I'm defending MS in this point because I've seen nothing that makes me think "hey, this is actually right. Maybe MS ARE being a bit greedy. Maybe it's not Google's fault.

I've tried to be non-biased when reading the article. I wasn't sure at first. Looked a bit more into it. My conclusion was: MS is right here.

To the ad point which is getting trumpeted: Go to the YT mobile site. Watch a vid that has an ad on desktop. See any ads? I don't.

Also it'd be helpful if you also read my edit. Thanks smile.gif

I did go back. You seem to not acknowledge that Google has a choice.
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post #15 of 51
Since when was the 360 an ARM device running a WP OS? Do you claim to know so much about the WP8 source code and the 360 OS source code/YT app to say that Google definitely game MS the POSIX-compliant API for them to adapt ans recompile to other platforms? I think it's most likely that Google gave MS a compatible API specifically for the 360. Google's interactions with MS regarding any MS mobile platform has been so childish it's not even defensible. Honestly just look at gmail and gtalk. If Google were the victim, they would have the docs to call MS on not having the API. Have they done so? Nope.

I'm not saying MS is blameless, but as a WP8 user who initially had access to all his google features at launch just to see them stripped away for no coherent reason, google's stances need some explaining.

And google complaining that WP is leeching revenue is a complete joke. Look at the WP marketshare. Now look at the amount of people running firefox/chrome with Adblock Plus installed. Many streaming sites can detect ABP and play extra long blank screens instead of 30 second ads unless it is disabled. This is well within google's capability but instead they focus PR resources on attacking one of the smallest smartphone user bases and complain about YT ads? Come on.

ETA: On the YT mobile site, I have NEVER seen an ad when accessed from my Lumia 920. Never, ever ever.
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post #16 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum Reality View Post

These features directly harm our content creators

*rolls eyes* Honestly. People who want to defend corporate revenue streams say things like this like it's equivalent to being mugged in a back alley.

Also...
So well they have no problem overzealously refusing to lift a finger to help users DMCA-steamrollered by automatic music recognition for short video clips which would clearly fall under Fair Use, since all a company rep has to do is "reassert" a copyright complaint and your video's gone.

So much for protecting users from large entities!

you're probably not familiar with monetization features in youtube, but it's actually quite nice to make some ad revenue on the side for a video you post up for free. Not all of the ad revenue from watching youtube goes to google.

edit: and for fair use, i have a video with some other person's music. Simply acknowledge that it's not your own work and they may let you keep it. google sends you a message specifically asking this whenever its detected. You just cant monetize it. Its why you see the title and artist on the side in some videos. People that have their videos taken down when used with "fair use" probably dont do anything and leave it monetized. Then they take it down. Fair? I think so. How i avoid all that? Dont use music that is copyrighted. There's plenty out there.

my video with copyrighted content: http://youtu.be/DwKrFTz8UGg yep, still up. and it's a good portion of the song too.

my other videos i have monetized, and haven thad any problems because 1. they either dont have music 2. they have copyright free music. People getting massive hits on other people's music probably try to cash in with monetization. Is it fair? No. This is something you agree to before monetizing a video. Everything has to be original or copyright free for monetization.
Edited by ez12a - 5/16/13 at 9:35am
 
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post #17 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

^ Google didn't "give" them an app. In fact, Google haven't given them ANY apps. They wrote that old, pitiful web wrapper.

Also, FYI, remember the IE Browser Choice thing? When it went missing for a day and they had to pay an astronomical fine due to antitrust? Yeah, that was Google. I'm 90% this would also apply to antitrust.
And again, please tell me where they broke them before the TWO times where they blocked the Google APIs by being accessed by MS?

Google has the right to sell, or give away, a service to whomever they choose. Microsoft didn't get in trouble for forgetting it for one day. It doesn't work like that. Microsoft are still on corporate probation and got in trouble for violating that "probation". They are being punished for past mistakes and got in trouble again for not following through with agreed terms of that punishment.

It seems to be you are on a pro-Microsoft, anti-Google stance, which is alright, but an even keeled mind set would be more beneficial.
I'm defending MS in this point because I've seen nothing that makes me think "hey, this is actually right. Maybe MS ARE being a bit greedy. Maybe it's not Google's fault.

I've tried to be non-biased when reading the article. I wasn't sure at first. Looked a bit more into it. My conclusion was: MS is right here.

To the ad point which is getting trumpeted: Go to the YT mobile site. Watch a vid that has an ad on desktop. See any ads? I don't.

Also it'd be helpful if you also read my edit. Thanks smile.gif

I did go back. You seem to not acknowledge that Google has a choice.
That's been your argument for quite a while now. Any other argument, except choice? As this app came out one week ago. I'm pretty damn sure that Adblock came out way before that.

^Doesn't work on the mobile website anyways, so right now you're not gonna get any money from WP. :/
post #18 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

That's been your argument for quite a while now. Any other argument, except choice? As this app came out one week ago. I'm pretty damn sure that Adblock came out way before that.

^Doesn't work on the mobile website anyways, so right now you're not gonna get any money from WP. :/

Is there anything I can say to point out that you are completely one sided on this?
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post #19 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

That's been your argument for quite a while now. Any other argument, except choice? As this app came out one week ago. I'm pretty damn sure that Adblock came out way before that.

^Doesn't work on the mobile website anyways, so right now you're not gonna get any money from WP. :/

Is there anything I can say to point out that you are completely one sided on this?
Yes, PROOF.
post #20 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

That's been your argument for quite a while now. Any other argument, except choice? As this app came out one week ago. I'm pretty damn sure that Adblock came out way before that.

^Doesn't work on the mobile website anyways, so right now you're not gonna get any money from WP. :/

Is there anything I can say to point out that you are completely one sided on this?
Yes, PROOF.

What proof would you like, that will allow you to agree Google can provide its service how it would like and to whomever it wants?
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