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[Ars] Google: “Take down your ad-free YouTube app” Microsoft: “Let us add ads” - Page 4

post #31 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaub View Post

/rant started

As a Windows Phone user since three years, I'm not with Google on this one. They always tried to block the OS to access to YouTube in any way. It took 3 years before we have finally an OFFICIAL app that's great (Microsoft have done a terrific job with this app, it's awesome).

I remember Google saying something like "there's not enough users to justify an app, so there's not money to make". Well, why complain then? You have always refused to give APIs to Windows Phone or making an app yourself saying that there weren't enough user; you shouldn't complain about the loss of few publicity. Strange that yesterday they asked more "openness" from Microsoft at Google I/O rolleyes.gif

My opinion: make the app yourself or give MS permission to use your APIs.

/rant finished

Google and Microsoft are so childish when they deal with each other; it's not even funny anymore.
That being said, using free app in the WP Marketplace / YouTube mobile site, I never got any adds thinking.gif

It's a valid opinion but Google is under absolutely no obligation to do either. MS has every right to pay them to do so however thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

It's probably a very small number of people using such apps though in comparison to the number of people that are using Youtube from a Windows phone. We're talking 100% of WP users aren't seeing those ads, versus probably 5% of Chrome/etc. users skipping on them with such extensions. Probably why they haven't really bothered to kill off those apps (though they were recently removing some weren't they?) We're also talking about ONE entity (Microsoft) violating terms and distributing an app that skips ads, versus dozens of community developers (good luck reaching one!) that have extensions for Chrome. Google are probably happy to even have them supporting the Chrome browser with such development.

^Right, of course.
Chrome AdBlock users: 10M.
WP users: around 20M (with some very rough calcs)


I think that there is actually quite a large number of people that use Ad blockers.

10 million Chrome AdBlock users out of? 750+ million Chrome users. That's 1.33% of Chrome users.
20 million WP users out of? 20 million WP users.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 5/16/13 at 9:40am
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post #32 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

You do realize that both the Xbox Online YouTube app works with ads (so the APIs have already been in Microsofts access), and that this program also allows you to download videos and play restricted ones?

...which is blatantly against YouTube's ToS...
   
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post #33 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaub View Post

/rant started

As a Windows Phone user since three years, I'm not with Google on this one. They always tried to block the OS to access to YouTube in any way. It took 3 years before we have finally an OFFICIAL app that's great (Microsoft have done a terrific job with this app, it's awesome).

I remember Google saying something like "there's not enough users to justify an app, so there's not money to make". Well, why complain then? You have always refused to give APIs to Windows Phone or making an app yourself saying that there weren't enough user; you shouldn't complain about the loss of few publicity. Strange that yesterday they asked more "openness" from Microsoft at Google I/O rolleyes.gif

My opinion: make the app yourself or give MS permission to use your APIs.

/rant finished

Google and Microsoft are so childish when they deal with each other; it's not even funny anymore.
That being said, using free app in the WP Marketplace / YouTube mobile site, I never got any adds thinking.gif

It's a valid opinion but Google is under absolutely no obligation to do either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaub View Post

/rant started

As a Windows Phone user since three years, I'm not with Google on this one. They always tried to block the OS to access to YouTube in any way. It took 3 years before we have finally an OFFICIAL app that's great (Microsoft have done a terrific job with this app, it's awesome).

I remember Google saying something like "there's not enough users to justify an app, so there's not money to make". Well, why complain then? You have always refused to give APIs to Windows Phone or making an app yourself saying that there weren't enough user; you shouldn't complain about the loss of few publicity. Strange that yesterday they asked more "openness" from Microsoft at Google I/O rolleyes.gif

My opinion: make the app yourself or give MS permission to use your APIs.

/rant finished

Google and Microsoft are so childish when they deal with each other; it's not even funny anymore.
That being said, using free app in the WP Marketplace / YouTube mobile site, I never got any adds thinking.gif
Someone else that agrees with me!

^Right, of course.
Chrome AdBlock users: 10M.
WP users: around 20M (with some very rough calcs)


I think that there is actually quite a large number of people that use Ad blockers.

Out of? 400+ million.
Out of? 20 million.
Right, but everyone can use it BUT MS on THIS specific platform. Again, that should be grounds for antitrust.

Oh, I put WP users. YT app downloads: ~1M (some rough math + guesstimation)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

You do realize that both the Xbox Online YouTube app works with ads (so the APIs have already been in Microsofts access), and that this program also allows you to download videos and play restricted ones?

...which is blatantly against YouTube's ToS...
Not like there's other apps that do it, in all platforms.

Oh wait...
Edited by 3930K - 5/16/13 at 9:41am
post #34 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

It's probably a very small number of people using such apps though in comparison to the number of people that are using Youtube from a Windows phone. We're talking 100% of WP users aren't seeing those ads, versus probably 5% of Chrome/etc. users skipping on them with such extensions. Probably why they haven't really bothered to kill off those apps (though they were recently removing some weren't they?) We're also talking about ONE entity (Microsoft) violating terms and distributing an app that skips ads, versus dozens of community developers (good luck reaching one!) that have extensions for Chrome. Google are probably happy to even have them supporting the Chrome browser with such development.

The point however, is that those people weren't seeing those ads in the first place due to the restricted way that devs have to use to create YouTube apps for Windows Phone.

When MS commented on such restrictions, Google replied as if everything was hunky dory and there was no issue in a very blasé and dismissive tone. Not to mention the "we don't feel its worth our time to support it ourselves" kinds of comments made previously.

Infact, their very words regarding MS complaining about Google purposefully not giving MS access to the data they give everyone else access to when making YouTube apps :
Quote:
Contrary to Microsoft’s claims, it’s easy for consumers to view YouTube videos on Windows phones. Windows phone users can access all the features of YouTube through our HTML5-based mobile website, including viewing high-quality video streams, finding favorite videos, seeing video ratings, and searching for video categories. In fact, we’ve worked with Microsoft for several years to help build a great YouTube experience on Windows phones.

There you have it folks, the reason Google won't be cooperating further with MS regarding this whole kerfuffle is because screw you Windows Phone user, use your browser and traverse our YouTube site. No app for you.


So Google seemingly have no issue with crippled third party YouTube apps having no ad support, they have no issue with the only convoluted alternative to a WP youtube app (going to the mobile site in a browser) having no ad support, they don't think WP is big enough to be worth their time, but they have a huge issue with an official app that has no ad support.

At the end of the day, its the consumers getting boned due to all this crap.
Edited by GrizzleBoy - 5/16/13 at 9:50am
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post #35 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaub View Post

/rant started

As a Windows Phone user since three years, I'm not with Google on this one. They always tried to block the OS to access to YouTube in any way. It took 3 years before we have finally an OFFICIAL app that's great (Microsoft have done a terrific job with this app, it's awesome).

I remember Google saying something like "there's not enough users to justify an app, so there's not money to make". Well, why complain then? You have always refused to give APIs to Windows Phone or making an app yourself saying that there weren't enough user; you shouldn't complain about the loss of few publicity. Strange that yesterday they asked more "openness" from Microsoft at Google I/O rolleyes.gif

My opinion: make the app yourself or give MS permission to use your APIs.

/rant finished

Google and Microsoft are so childish when they deal with each other; it's not even funny anymore.
That being said, using free app in the WP Marketplace / YouTube mobile site, I never got any adds thinking.gif

It's a valid opinion but Google is under absolutely no obligation to do either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Out of? 400+ million.
Out of? 20 million.
Oh, I put WP users. YT app downloads: ~1M (some rough math + guesstimation)

Yes, app downloads, for a freshly released app. Google are simply trying to get it resolved before it blows up. How many smartphone owners never look up Youtube videos? They're simply making a judgement call: they're losing (or going to be losing) more revenue from WP users avoiding ads than from desktop users with AdBlock/etc. plugins.
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post #36 of 51
Thread Starter 
Uhm, no they're not. They're not gaining any revenue now anyways, because neither the mobile site or any of the unofficial apps offer ads.
post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

It's a valid opinion but Google is under absolutely no obligation to do either. MS has every right to pay them to do so however thumb.gif

I know, but from a company who bash Apple/MS from closing their APIs / not using standards (which is right) I find it's pretty paradoxal guiltysmiley.gif

It just seems Google have pure hate when they're talking about Windows Phone... I just want to be able to access their services on WP without problems. Luckly we had good app like MetroTube (which had no adds if I remember right) for the last couple of year.
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post #38 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaub View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

It's a valid opinion but Google is under absolutely no obligation to do either. MS has every right to pay them to do so however thumb.gif

I know, but from a company who bash Apple/MS from closing their APIs / not using standards (which is right) I find it's pretty paradoxal guiltysmiley.gif

It just seems Google have pure hate when they're talking about Windows Phone... I just want to be able to access their services on WP without problems. Luckly we had good app like MetroTube (which had no adds if I remember right) for the last couple of year.
Great app, my defacto YT app on my phone. smile.gif

I'd have LOVED to have asked Page yesterday in I/O about their stance on Windows Phone.
post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

It's probably a very small number of people using such apps though in comparison to the number of people that are using Youtube from a Windows phone. We're talking 100% of WP users aren't seeing those ads, versus probably 5% of Chrome/etc. users skipping on them with such extensions. Probably why they haven't really bothered to kill off those apps (though they were recently removing some weren't they?) We're also talking about ONE entity (Microsoft) violating terms and distributing an app that skips ads, versus dozens of community developers (good luck reaching one!) that have extensions for Chrome. Google are probably happy to even have them supporting the Chrome browser with such development.

The point however, is that those people weren't seeing those ads in the first place due to the restricted way that devs have to use to create YouTube apps for Windows Phone.

When MS commented on such restrictions, Google replied as if everything was hunky dory and there was no issue in a very blasé and dismissive tone. Not to mention the "we don't feel its worth our time to support it ourselves" kinds of comments made previously.

So Google seemingly have no issue with crippled third party YouTube apps having no ad support, they have no issue with the only convoluted alternative to a WP youtube app (going to the mobile site in a browser) having no ad support, they don't think WP is big enough to be worth their time, but they have a huge issue with an official app that has no ad support.

At the end of the day, its the consumers getting boned due to all this crap.

I do see the flawed logic on Google's part there, but simply keep in mind this is a huge corporation doing it now, not just third party small-time developers. Law doesn't dictate "Hey you've been ok with all these other people doing it, you can't have issues with Microsoft doing it too." It's up to Google to go after whomever they please. Let's see Google releasing an Android app that lets us use X Microsoft service without any ads or some other similar case. We all know MS would be all over them.

The issue/debate at hand I'm putting in here isn't that it's right or wrong. It's that Google has every right to demand what they're demanding, which is for MS to pull their app.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 5/16/13 at 9:52am
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post #40 of 51
Thread Starter 
They wouldn't have to, mainly cos MS has been co-operative and released pretty much every MS-exclusive app that's available on WP on the other platforms (except Office obviously)
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