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Help With LGA775 QX9650 4.0GHz Stable Overclock - Page 3

post #21 of 29
The guy that suggested the voltages is about spot-on.
needs more vtt.
I'm running a similar chip @ 3.8..(except e0) It'll run anything well.
ofc i has all NB/VTT maxxed cuz well..i might wanna crank it up biggrin.gif
oh yeah..disable LLC ..set voltage higher and just let it droop..cleaner current that way.
 
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post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuckley View Post

The guy that suggested the voltages is about spot-on.
needs more vtt.
I'm running a similar chip @ 3.8..(except e0) It'll run anything well.
ofc i has all NB/VTT maxxed cuz well..i might wanna crank it up biggrin.gif
oh yeah..disable LLC ..set voltage higher and just let it droop..cleaner current that way.

No, he should keep his LLC enabled.

Droop on most boards gets up to 0.07 with this chip, and so in order for him to get 1.42V under load to get 4GHz (for example) he would need to pump 1.49V at BIOS, which is not a safe nor a sustainable setting as it will cause accelerated degradation through electromigration.
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post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxontas View Post

I was referring to the two (2) screenshots you posted earlier on this thread.

In both of them, CPUZ reports your Core Voltage as being 1.47V.

I have got plenty of experience with this CPU as I have owned it since 2008, and in order for CPUZ to report your VCore Voltage as being 1.470V at Windows, the BIOS setting must have been 1.50V or higher.

VCore Voltage=The voltage that goes through your CPU, aka "VCore".

Like I said before, 1.47/1.50V is a dangerous and unsafe CPU voltage for 45nm CPU's, as Intel's Absolute Maximum voltage for 45nm CPU's is 1.45V, and Intel's max safe recommended voltage for 45nm CPU's is just 1.3625V.

Now let's go back to the basics:

-Suppose you set your VCore in the BIOS to 1.40V. If Loadline Calibration is disabled, you will get 1.36V VCore at Windows as reported by CPUZ/HW Monitor, and 1.33V under load. This is by design (an Intel feature) and it is called "VDroop".

--Suppose you set your VCore in the BIOS to 1.40V. If Loadline Calibration is enabled, you will get 1.39V VCore at Windows as reported by CPUZ/HW Monitor, and 1.38V under load. LLC compensates for VDroop ensuring constant voltage under load, thus providing great stability.
===========================================================================================================================================================

As for the rest: TJMAX is NOT the same with TCASE. The TCASE for QX9650 is 64.5C while the TJMAX for QX9650 is 95C. TJMAX is a core temperature (temperature of your cores) while TCASE is the CPU PACKAGE temperature, reported at HW MONITOR as "CPUTIN".

What you need to look out for, is for your TCASE temperature NOT to exceed 64.5C. It is okay if your cores go up to 70C so long as your TCASE temperature is below 64.5C. Like I said before, you can monitor your TCASE temperature by monitoring the CPUTIN temperature by using the software "CPUID HARDWARE MONITOR".

Final note: QX9650 has got a very high TDP (thermal output) of 130W. This CPU was designed to be used with water cooling, this is why its TCASE is lower than other similar CPU's such as Q9550, Q9650 etc. Q9650 & Q9550 have got a TCASE temperature of 71.4C, 7 degrees higher, and a lower TDP of just 95W.

So, if you are not water cooling, it is not safe to run 4 GHz in the summer (depending on your ambient temps ofc). I know it's not safe to run my QX9650 at or above 4GHz during the summer here in Greece because even with one of the best extreme air coolers in the market (Thermaltake FRIO OCK), its TCASE temperature goes above 64.5C at an overclock of around 3.9 GHz, this is why I am running my CPU at 3.84 GHz in the summer and only switch to 4 GHz+ in winter.

Northbridge Voltage: This depends on how large your northbridge heatsink is and/or whether you are watercooling your NB and/or whether you are using additional dedicated air cooling for your NB. On MOBO's with a large northbridge heatsink (ASUS P5Q Deluxe, ASUS ROG Rampage Formula X48, etc), voltages up to 1.4V are fine for 24/7 sustained usage. I have been personally running 1.4V Northbridge voltage on my P45 ASUS P5Q Deluxe for over a year with no issues.

Take a look at the screenshots in my very first post. My CPU voltage is 1.35, and my NB voltage is 1.47 (I'm using the Foxconn Blackops X48 board, which does have a large northbridge heatsink and a fan). I don't know why Speedfan and CPUz both read the wrong voltage from the board, but it is what it is, I guess.

I'll have to download HW Monitor and see what it shows my CPUTIN as, but I'm not too worried, since my core temps never get into the low 60s in Prime95.

I do want to slap a Swiftech H220 on there, but I just can't swing the purchase yet. For now, as Summer has hit and temps are already in the low 100s, I'm leaving it at 3.8.
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post #24 of 29
Since you have got a X48 board (X48 chips are 90nm), I think you can run 1.5V NB voltage 24/7 safely. My P45 is a 65nm chip, so naturally it has got lower voltage limits than the X38 and X48.

Be extra careful with VTT. Anandtech killed one QX9650 by running Prime on it for 24hours with a VTT of JUST 1.52V. Story here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3381

Attaching Anandtech's max recommended voltage limits for 24/7 usage for 45nm Core 2 chips:



Just ignore their recommendation for maximum BIOS VCore of 1.50V and go with Intel's Absolute Maximum VCore of 1.45V and remember that VTT higher than 1.36 and CPU PLL higher than 1.60V are a surefire way to kill your CPU fast.
Edited by Arxontas - 6/13/13 at 8:31am
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QX 9650: Retired
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post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxontas View Post

As for the rest: TJMAX is NOT the same with TCASE. The TCASE for QX9650 is 64.5C while the TJMAX for QX9650 is 95C. TJMAX is a core temperature (temperature of your cores) while TCASE is the CPU PACKAGE temperature, reported at HW MONITOR as "CPUTIN".

What you need to look out for, is for your TCASE temperature NOT to exceed 64.5C. It is okay if your cores go up to 70C so long as your TCASE temperature is below 64.5C. Like I said before, you can monitor your TCASE temperature by monitoring the CPUTIN temperature by using the software "CPUID HARDWARE MONITOR".

No software exists to measure the tCase temperature. This specification was intended for system builders and not end users. The only correct way to measure tCase is by taking a Dremel or similar tool and cutting a groove into the top of the heat spreader on the CPU and mounting a thermocouple at the geometric center of the IHS and then putting some solder on top so the thermocouple doesn't move. Intel never intended for end users to Dremel their new CPUs. Software that reports some sort of package temperature should not be compared to the Intel tCase specification. These two are definitely not the same.

For end users, Intel installs temperature sensors on the hottest spots on the core. As long as your CPU is not reaching the thermal throttling temperature then it is running within the Intel spec and everything is OK. If the RealTemp - Thermal Status area shows OK then none of your CPU cores have reached the thermal throttling limit which means your CPU temperature is fine.

The newer E0 stepping Quads were a lot easier to run reliably at 4000 MHz. Your QX9650 is not an E0 so running it at 4000 MHz long term may not be possible. Newer Core i CPUs can be over clocked and over volted and can run reliably at some extreme temperatures. The Core 2 Duo based QX9650 is not nearly as robust. When overclocking, as temperatures go up, stability goes down.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6216/torturetest.png

Why not just set the multi to 9.5 and run your CPU at 3800 MHz and call it a day If your bios does not let you access the half multipliers then try using ThrottleStop. Click on the UNLK button and increase your multi in steps of 0.5. Here's my QX running the 9.5 multi but my old board is not happy running Quads at a FSB of 400 MHz so I need to run the 11.5 multi and a FSB of about 330 MHz to hit 3.8 GHz. It takes too much voltage after that.

qx965095multi.png

ThrottleStop 5.00
http://www.techinferno.com/downloads/
post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb View Post

No software exists to measure the tCase temperature. This specification was intended for system builders and not end users. The only correct way to measure tCase is by taking a Dremel or similar tool and cutting a groove into the top of the heat spreader on the CPU and mounting a thermocouple at the geometric center of the IHS and then putting some solder on top so the thermocouple doesn't move. Intel never intended for end users to Dremel their new CPUs. Software that reports some sort of package temperature should not be compared to the Intel tCase specification. These two are definitely not the same.

For end users, Intel installs temperature sensors on the hottest spots on the core. As long as your CPU is not reaching the thermal throttling temperature then it is running within the Intel spec and everything is OK. If the RealTemp - Thermal Status area shows OK then none of your CPU cores have reached the thermal throttling limit which means your CPU temperature is fine.

While what you say may be precise, CPUTIN is an approximate figure roughly comparable to TCASE for practical purposes, and keeping my CPUTIN temperature below 64.5C has helped my CPU complete around 21,000 hours of operation since 07 March 2008, with little or no degradation. Therefore, I recommend to any and all QX9650 users, to try and keep their CPUTIN temperature at or below 64.5C in order to prolong the life of their CPUs.
Quote:
The newer E0 stepping Quads were a lot easier to run reliably at 4000 MHz. Your QX9650 is not an E0 so running it at 4000 MHz long term may not be possible. The Core 2 Duo based QX9650 is not nearly as robust. When overclocking, as temperatures go up, stability goes down.

This is not the case. If you have got a high quality board, you do not notice any less stability due to increased operating temperature, and running 4GHz (to be exact 4050 MHZ) for months on end is no problem so long as the ambient temperature is low and/or you use watercooling.

Also, high FSB with P45 and X48 boards is no problem, as I (and many others) have reached 500 FSB (2000 MHz Rated FSB) stable with my P5Q deluxe.
Edited by Arxontas - 6/13/13 at 9:05am
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post #27 of 29


For the sake of consistency, I just checked on the operating hours of my CPU. My CPU has completed exactly 20,962 hours of operation since 07 March, 2008.
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QX 9650: Retired
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post #28 of 29
CPUTIN might be an approximation of tCase but data from that sensor is not the same as properly measured tCase. CPUTIN can vary depending on the bios version used and on some motherboards it is not even close to accurate. Have a look at the screen shot you posted which shows your maximum CPUTIN at 111C.

Intel stopped using CPUTIN to control their CPUs after the Pentium 4 era and instead went to individually calibrated core temperature sensors to control both thermal throttling and thermal shutdown. This allowed Intel to maximize performance without throttling or worrying about end users damaging their CPUs due to excessive heat.

Here is some high temperature testing I did on a 45nm E8400.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/276/hote8400fw5.png

This CPU could run reliably for hours on end at the maximum temperature. It would throttle just enough to keep the core temperature just under the 100C maximum. At 3600 MHz this Core 2 was fine at any temperature. When you pushed the overclock further up to 4000 MHz, this same CPU would lose stability beyond a core temperature of 75C. At 4200 MHz, the maximum temperature had to be reduced further to maintain Prime stability. The relationship between core temperature and stability was obvious. The first, 2nd and 3rd generation Core i CPUs seem to have better stability when overclocking at high temperatures. The 4th gen is probably the same but I haven't tested one of them yet.
Quote:
If you have got a high quality board, you do not notice any less stability due to increased operating temperature, and running 4GHz (to be exact 4050 MHZ) for months on end is no problem so long as the ambient temperature is low and/or you use watercooling.

You start off by saying that you do not notice any less stability and then you finish the same sentence by saying that as long as the ambient temperature is low or you are water cooling. You have obviously observed the same thing that I observed. Keep 'em cool and they will run reliably.

Your QX9650 has lived a long and happy life because you are keeping your CPU cores cool and the core voltage at a safe level.
post #29 of 29
The following motherboard sensors do not work properly:

1. CPU TIN MAXIMUM reports exactly double the correct maximum temperature, in this case 111C instead of the correct 55.5C.
2. VIN 1 (Memory Voltage)
3. VIN 6 (Northbridge Voltage)
4. AUX sensor

I can tell that the current CPUTIN temperature reported is otherwise fairly accurate b/c the difference between current core temperatures and CPUTIN is between 5-10C, as it should be.
Quote:
Intel stopped using CPUTIN to control their CPUs after the Pentium 4 era and instead went to individually calibrated core temperature sensors to control both thermal throttling and thermal shutdown. This allowed Intel to maximize performance without throttling or worrying about end users damaging their CPUs due to excessive heat.

Here is some high temperature testing I did on a 45nm E8400.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/276/hote8400fw5.png

Please don't confuse E8400 with QX9650. E8400 is a dual core with 65W TDP and 71.4 TCASE. QX9650 is quad core with 130W TDP and 64.5 TCASE.

That said, my CPU has managed to live for 21000 hours because:

1. I took care to cool my CPU properly with my CPUTIN temperature never exceeding the 64.5C Intel specification.

2. I followed ANANDTECH's voltage guide posted above and more specifically, respected Intel's Absolute Maximum VCore voltage. My CPU was never operated above 1.45 VCore.

This is what I recommend other QX9650 users to do if they want to prolong the life of their CPU. I am not trying to tell you how to run your CPU. You can choose to run your CPU 24/7 under max prime stress and your cores at 95C or above. That's cool b/c it's your CPU and you can feed it 2.4 Volts VCore if you want for all I care.
Quote:
You start off by saying that you do not notice any less stability and then you finish the same sentence by saying that as long as the ambient temperature is low or you are water cooling. You have obviously observed the same thing that I observed. Keep 'em cool and they will run reliably.

The reason I choose to throttle my CPU in the summer and run at 3.8ish GHz is not because it gets unstable as the heat increases, but rather b/c I do not want my CPUTIN temperature to exceed Intel's specified 64.5C TCASE limit as I am air-cooling it.
Edited by Arxontas - 6/14/13 at 10:45am
QX 9650: Retired
(17 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650 Asus P5Q DELUXE Gigabyte NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 Super Overclock GSKILL Trident Extreme Performance Memory F2-88... 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
GSKILL Trident Extreme Performance Memory F2-88... GSKILL Trident Extreme Performance Memory F2-88... GSKILL Trident Extreme Performance Memory F2-88... Western Digital Caviar Blue 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Western Digital Caviar Blue Thermaltake Frio Overclock King Windows 7 Professional  Philips FTV 32PFL5605H, 32'' 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Comfort Curve Silverstone Strider Gold, 850W Cooler Master Cosmos RC 1000 Microsoft Intelli Mouse 
Audio
SoundBlaster Audigy 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel® Core™ i7-4770K Processor Asus Maximus VI Hero Gigabyte GTX 780 ti GHz edition G.SKILL ARES F3-2400C11Q-32GAB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
WD Blue 6TB Desktop Hard Disk Drive WD Blue 6TB Desktop Hard Disk Drive Samsung 840 Evo 500 GB Samsung 750 Evo 120 GB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LG GDR-H30N DVD-ROM DRIVE Thermaltake Frio Overclock King Windows 7 Professional  Acer Predator X34 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Comfort Curve Silverstone Strider Gold, 850W Corsair 780T Microsoft Intelli Mouse 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Pentium 4 Northwood@3.06 GHz with HT Single Cor... Intel 845 PE Brookdale based Toshiba BTR80 on T... Nvidia GeForce4 460 Go DDR1 1GB 
RAMHard DriveOS
DDR1 1GB Western Digital Scorpio Blue WD2500BEVE 250GB Windows XP 32bit Home Edition 
  hide details  
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QX 9650: Retired
(17 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650 Asus P5Q DELUXE Gigabyte NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 Super Overclock GSKILL Trident Extreme Performance Memory F2-88... 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
GSKILL Trident Extreme Performance Memory F2-88... GSKILL Trident Extreme Performance Memory F2-88... GSKILL Trident Extreme Performance Memory F2-88... Western Digital Caviar Blue 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Western Digital Caviar Blue Thermaltake Frio Overclock King Windows 7 Professional  Philips FTV 32PFL5605H, 32'' 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Comfort Curve Silverstone Strider Gold, 850W Cooler Master Cosmos RC 1000 Microsoft Intelli Mouse 
Audio
SoundBlaster Audigy 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel® Core™ i7-4770K Processor Asus Maximus VI Hero Gigabyte GTX 780 ti GHz edition G.SKILL ARES F3-2400C11Q-32GAB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
WD Blue 6TB Desktop Hard Disk Drive WD Blue 6TB Desktop Hard Disk Drive Samsung 840 Evo 500 GB Samsung 750 Evo 120 GB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LG GDR-H30N DVD-ROM DRIVE Thermaltake Frio Overclock King Windows 7 Professional  Acer Predator X34 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Comfort Curve Silverstone Strider Gold, 850W Corsair 780T Microsoft Intelli Mouse 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Pentium 4 Northwood@3.06 GHz with HT Single Cor... Intel 845 PE Brookdale based Toshiba BTR80 on T... Nvidia GeForce4 460 Go DDR1 1GB 
RAMHard DriveOS
DDR1 1GB Western Digital Scorpio Blue WD2500BEVE 250GB Windows XP 32bit Home Edition 
  hide details  
Reply
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