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post #11 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie97 View Post

And about a few months after that, AMD would have released a new CPU platform and GPU platform, and Intel would have probably also come up with the latest gimmick. In a rapidly progressing market, succumbing to heavy consumerism will leave you in an economically unfeasible position.

We are talking a few weeks for a rig he wants for a game coming out in August, it's not like I advocated waiting for AI to be invented.
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i5 3570k Gbyte Z77X-UD3H MSI GTX670 16GB (4X4) Corsair Vengance 1600MHz Low Profile 
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Intel
(14 items)
 
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i5 3570k Gbyte Z77X-UD3H MSI GTX670 16GB (4X4) Corsair Vengance 1600MHz Low Profile 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
1Tb Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM 1Tb Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM 120GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD Cheapo DVDRW 
CoolingOSKeyboardPower
CM Hyper 212 EVO Push/Pull Win7 Pro Sidewinder X4 OCZ ZS 650W 
CaseMouse
CM HAF X RAT 5 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Phenom II 1600T GA990XA-UD3 Palit 550ti Palit 550ti (sli) 
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16GB (4X4) Gskill OCZ Agility 3 120GB Seagate Barracuda 500GB WD Black 500GB 
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post #12 of 36
Thread Starter 
ok so what i hear about that i will wait for the release smile.gif
and than i will see what is the best for me. So i am right?
So i will ask you in a few weeks again, if that is ok.
post #13 of 36
I also want to point out the PSU you are wanting to use 450w is a bit skimpy considering the current draw of the CPU and GPU will both be on 12v rail + fans / cooling and hardrives the hd 7950 is 310w total http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7950-overclock-crossfire-benchmark,3123-19.html on 12v rail fully loaded and Intel I5 3570k stock max load is 100w http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i5-3570-low-power,3204-13.html add them up 310+100=410w on just the 12v rail then add your hardrives say 10w a piece and fans / cooling lets say another 40w you get 410+40=450w this is not even taking into account the other voltage draws ram / motherboard draw or anything nor is it taking into affect 80% max load goal per voltage rail once you go over 80% the power ripple goes crazy and efficiency and power quality go to crap then massive coil whinning and such and catastrophic failure follows.

I want to point out most don't think the cpu draws off the 12v rail facts are it does so does ram and a lot of other stuff on motherboard this is what the VRM's / Mosfets do convert the 12v power to other voltages the above math doesn't even figure in efficiency loss due to overloading psu or factor in the amount of power lost to heat.

remember the PSU is the lifeblood of entire system you skimp here or run a PSU to small you are asking for problems along with catastrophic failure that can fry everything attached to the PSU in otherwards fry everything you just bought and attached to it I have even seen a cheap PSU fry so suddenly and violently it fried the headset the guy was wearing and monitor and loud pops and sparks and flames followed inside his machine over it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP8nFQYQW34 video on the above mentioned failure of a psu the bright sparks and such are AC discharge which backfeeds into everything attached to it including monitors / hardrives / motherboard / cpu / ram / graphics cards / sound cards / headsets / mics / even speaker systems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9g4Crqw41Y this is what it looks like when a psu fails over a overload it looks like a explosion went off inside unit and this is a very high quality high end PSU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrijOqu5oR4 this eventualy happens when you power on a overloaded PSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj8-wNmYJvM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmsIBK7_sxY overload failure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOjJOXIJNt4 overload failure
Edited by rickcooperjr - 5/17/13 at 2:32pm
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Intel I7 5820k 4.6ghz core 4.3ghz CPU cache 1.345v asus sabertooth X99 sold R9 290x's am currently running a R9 280A X... 16gb of ddr4 corsair vengeance LPX 3200mhz 1t 1... 
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My System
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Intel I7 5820k 4.6ghz core 4.3ghz CPU cache 1.345v asus sabertooth X99 sold R9 290x's am currently running a R9 280A X... 16gb of ddr4 corsair vengeance LPX 3200mhz 1t 1... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
M.2 Toshiba OCZ RD400 512gb ASUS DVD rw  liquid cooled cpu and gpu's windows 10 pro 64bit 
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3 x 32lcd/led 2560x1600 wolfking timberwolf EVGA supernova 1300w G2  Thermaltake core X9 
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post #14 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

why are you going the I5 3570k is that not a plain quad core without hyperthreading also future is looking towards heavily multithreaded not single threaded performance.

Ok I have a few things to say here I will link some definitive videos from someone that is a hardcore Intel fanboy and is also sponsored by Intel Linus from Linus techtips part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICVeN6WEGgg part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD6UcsVG56g
part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHnsfIJtZ2o he even says the AMD FX 8350 performs nearly as well as the I5 3570k ( even when overclocked ) and always remained in the good playable fps except in 1 anomaly he points out the price differences and even states the future of the AMD FX looks like its multithreaded capabilities will be put better to use since next gen consoles nearly have all been won by AMD with a custom 8core CPU / APU (dx11) setup for ps4 and xbox 720 since 90% of games are first made for console then ported over to PC this gives AMD an edge and also massive optimizations ( and a lot of much needed funds for R & D ) for multithreading and such lowering the amount of games using heavy single threded performance.

I also want to point out his tests were done very thoroughly with nearly all variables taken out he goes deeply into depth of things and explains everything is setup to be nearly identical in every way minus the Intel and AMD.


I also would like to point out with next gen consoles being AMD do you believe they will optimize games with the notorious dirty Intel compiler / CPU dispatcher http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=49 scroll down till you see green then read this goes all the way to 5/2012 Intel compiler still doing it so it's very relative today remember almost all benchmarks / software / games use this Intel compiler / CPU dispatcher so once next gen consoles come into play a lot of the issues will be resolved and AMD will get a chance to show what is possible by them if you don't believe the Intel compiler issue then take a read of this http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2010/08/intel.shtm go down till you see this ( In addition, the FTC settlement order will require Intel to: ) then read it is directly mentioning this issue the US government had to step in on this subject and found it to be true and Intel is still releasing theyre compilers this way.

also the next gen AMD will be plug and play in the AM3+ socket with likely just a bios update why would you go with a dead socket ( I5 3570k ) that will be soon outperformed on both sides by AMD and Intel with next release basically I see your choice of the I5 3570k as a waste of money if you wait a bit there will be better prices and choices to select from or go AMD FX 8320 then when steamroller is released drop in new cpu sell old one to minimize cost also going AMD route the motherboards are a lot cheaper did I mention AMD FX 8320-50 overclock like mad men http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2779392 5.0ghz x8 100% stable but I don't like the voltage when under load being so high ( 1.56v under load ) for 24/7 http://valid.canardpc.com/2804509 4.8ghz x8 100% stable my 24/7 overclock ( 1.44v under load ) .

It might take some time to reach a point where 8 core truly performs significantly better than a 4 core. Right now it's hard to predict what's to come. AMD is a very solid option unlike how intel fanboys (which are big in numbers) say. Still buying an 8 core right now just for the core count may not be super future proof in the and, as an intel 4-core will be running games nice and smooth anyway for years as games tend to be more and more GPU intensive.
For example, 4 cores are at the moment very well performing in gaming and most games don't need more. But a new 4 core performs significantly better compared to an old one

You got a very valid point tho, but i just wanted to give my two cents smile.gif
The PSU wattage could maybe be a little higher now that you made me think about it 550W will give nice headroom thumb.gif
post #15 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiiKK View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

why are you going the I5 3570k is that not a plain quad core without hyperthreading also future is looking towards heavily multithreaded not single threaded performance.

Ok I have a few things to say here I will link some definitive videos from someone that is a hardcore Intel fanboy and is also sponsored by Intel Linus from Linus techtips part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICVeN6WEGgg part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD6UcsVG56g
part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHnsfIJtZ2o he even says the AMD FX 8350 performs nearly as well as the I5 3570k ( even when overclocked ) and always remained in the good playable fps except in 1 anomaly he points out the price differences and even states the future of the AMD FX looks like its multithreaded capabilities will be put better to use since next gen consoles nearly have all been won by AMD with a custom 8core CPU / APU (dx11) setup for ps4 and xbox 720 since 90% of games are first made for console then ported over to PC this gives AMD an edge and also massive optimizations ( and a lot of much needed funds for R & D ) for multithreading and such lowering the amount of games using heavy single threded performance.

I also want to point out his tests were done very thoroughly with nearly all variables taken out he goes deeply into depth of things and explains everything is setup to be nearly identical in every way minus the Intel and AMD.


I also would like to point out with next gen consoles being AMD do you believe they will optimize games with the notorious dirty Intel compiler / CPU dispatcher http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=49 scroll down till you see green then read this goes all the way to 5/2012 Intel compiler still doing it so it's very relative today remember almost all benchmarks / software / games use this Intel compiler / CPU dispatcher so once next gen consoles come into play a lot of the issues will be resolved and AMD will get a chance to show what is possible by them if you don't believe the Intel compiler issue then take a read of this http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2010/08/intel.shtm go down till you see this ( In addition, the FTC settlement order will require Intel to: ) then read it is directly mentioning this issue the US government had to step in on this subject and found it to be true and Intel is still releasing theyre compilers this way.

also the next gen AMD will be plug and play in the AM3+ socket with likely just a bios update why would you go with a dead socket ( I5 3570k ) that will be soon outperformed on both sides by AMD and Intel with next release basically I see your choice of the I5 3570k as a waste of money if you wait a bit there will be better prices and choices to select from or go AMD FX 8320 then when steamroller is released drop in new cpu sell old one to minimize cost also going AMD route the motherboards are a lot cheaper did I mention AMD FX 8320-50 overclock like mad men http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2779392 5.0ghz x8 100% stable but I don't like the voltage when under load being so high ( 1.56v under load ) for 24/7 http://valid.canardpc.com/2804509 4.8ghz x8 100% stable my 24/7 overclock ( 1.44v under load ) .

It might take some time to reach a point where 8 core truly performs significantly better than a 4 core. Right now it's hard to predict what's to come. AMD is a very solid option unlike how intel fanboys (which are big in numbers) say. Still buying an 8 core right now just for the core count may not be super future proof in the and, as an intel 4-core will be running games nice and smooth anyway for years as games tend to be more and more GPU intensive.
For example, 4 cores are at the moment very well performing in gaming and most games don't need more. But a new 4 core performs significantly better compared to an old one

You got a very valid point tho, but i just wanted to give my two cents smile.gif
The PSU wattage could maybe be a little higher now that you made me think about it 550W will give nice headroom thumb.gif

well facts are with next gen consoles being 8core AMD CPU's around 1.6ghz x8 / APU's ( dx11 ati hd 7850 lvl ) the game development will be forced to move towards heavier multithreading that is just facts and also they will have to optimize games and such to run properly on the new AMD FX architecture to run on the consoles so once the games are ported over to PC from console do you not see that benefiting the AMD FX PC's basically in short heavier multithreading of games will give more advantage to more cores period this is just facts so as I said in my last post and also Linus mentioned the future is multithreaded because of this so games will be forced to not be so single threaded this takes away a lot of the Intel I5 3570k 4core CPU performance advantage gaming wise so take away the optimizations for single thread performance I see the AMD 8 cores benefiting a lot. I would also like to point out the native dx11 addition to consoles brings better multithreaded support ( part of true DX11 ) once a game is made for dx9 (last gen consoles) it takes a whole new revamp / reprogramming ( game developers don't spend that much time / money to do this ) to make it fully utilize dx11 yes some games have dx11 now but they only use 1/2 of its capability of multithreading we have not seen it yet because current gen of consoles still run dx9 with dx11 implementation we can see far greater multithreaded capabilities far better then we have seen to this day in games.

give these a good read this will explain http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31520674&postcount=28 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ff476891(v=vs.85).aspx

Oh for the power supply size I advise a good PFC power supply with a large 12v single rail with around 750w to allow you to have room for expansion later or overclocking considering 550w is the minimum recommended PSU for a hd 7770 which I imagine you will be buying bigger for gaming so remember you will need higher if you want to overclock or simply buy a better card why play for 6 months then decide you want to upgrade then find out you need a bigger PSU buy a more than plenty quality PSU then rock it out for several upgrades / builds.
Edited by rickcooperjr - 5/18/13 at 4:01pm
My System
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 5820k 4.6ghz core 4.3ghz CPU cache 1.345v asus sabertooth X99 sold R9 290x's am currently running a R9 280A X... 16gb of ddr4 corsair vengeance LPX 3200mhz 1t 1... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
M.2 Toshiba OCZ RD400 512gb ASUS DVD rw  liquid cooled cpu and gpu's windows 10 pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3 x 32lcd/led 2560x1600 wolfking timberwolf EVGA supernova 1300w G2  Thermaltake core X9 
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steel series wow cataclysm 14button programable  wolfking sniper Intel PRO PT dual port PCIe server NIC 
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My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 5820k 4.6ghz core 4.3ghz CPU cache 1.345v asus sabertooth X99 sold R9 290x's am currently running a R9 280A X... 16gb of ddr4 corsair vengeance LPX 3200mhz 1t 1... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
M.2 Toshiba OCZ RD400 512gb ASUS DVD rw  liquid cooled cpu and gpu's windows 10 pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3 x 32lcd/led 2560x1600 wolfking timberwolf EVGA supernova 1300w G2  Thermaltake core X9 
MouseMouse PadOther
steel series wow cataclysm 14button programable  wolfking sniper Intel PRO PT dual port PCIe server NIC 
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post #16 of 36
Thread Starter 
So guys the release is here from 4770k/4670k and the Nvidia 7xx series.
what you mean now? go to the AMD8350 or Intel 4770k/4670k/3570k/3770k and Nvidai/AMD 79X0 or GTX 6xx or 7xx.
post #17 of 36
haswell is not worth the cost it barely beats the previous generations performance and well previous generation overclocks better in general so the benefits of haswell are negligeable at best so if going intel go I7 3770k or somewhere along those lines haswell was designed around better internal on chip graphics and power usage more designed for a laptop than a desktop lol.
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 5820k 4.6ghz core 4.3ghz CPU cache 1.345v asus sabertooth X99 sold R9 290x's am currently running a R9 280A X... 16gb of ddr4 corsair vengeance LPX 3200mhz 1t 1... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
M.2 Toshiba OCZ RD400 512gb ASUS DVD rw  liquid cooled cpu and gpu's windows 10 pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3 x 32lcd/led 2560x1600 wolfking timberwolf EVGA supernova 1300w G2  Thermaltake core X9 
MouseMouse PadOther
steel series wow cataclysm 14button programable  wolfking sniper Intel PRO PT dual port PCIe server NIC 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 5820k 4.6ghz core 4.3ghz CPU cache 1.345v asus sabertooth X99 sold R9 290x's am currently running a R9 280A X... 16gb of ddr4 corsair vengeance LPX 3200mhz 1t 1... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
M.2 Toshiba OCZ RD400 512gb ASUS DVD rw  liquid cooled cpu and gpu's windows 10 pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3 x 32lcd/led 2560x1600 wolfking timberwolf EVGA supernova 1300w G2  Thermaltake core X9 
MouseMouse PadOther
steel series wow cataclysm 14button programable  wolfking sniper Intel PRO PT dual port PCIe server NIC 
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post #18 of 36
Thread Starter 
and what you mean about the Graka for gaming gtx 7x0 oder 79x0/ghz ? i play on a 24" 1920x1200
post #19 of 36
Thread Starter 
if you get the 4670k for the same price as the 3570k what you would take?
post #20 of 36
4670k
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