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post #161 of 352
whats up with microsoft and intel.... w8 and haswell looking like fails.
    
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post #162 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

AVX2 is useless for games. See below, where Intel guys are throwing around Skyrim, a game that doesn't even use SSE and uses x87 instead. Just a reminder of how slow adoption of new instructions is, Intel has been telling everyone for the last 10+ years to stop using x87. And it's still getting used.

I did say that I knew most programs don't use it. And not everyone uses their computer for gaming, that is an extremely narrow-minded view.
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post #163 of 352
Just until AutoDesk 2010, SSE2 wasn't required. That instruction set was released nearly a decade ago, yet I find it hard to believe that a company with the budget for $1000 software licenses insist on using Pentium 3 computers to do the rendering.
post #164 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by XSHollywood View Post

While some may take this as bad news; as a LONG-time pc enthusiast I'm actually glad to see it. This really is the beginning of a new epoch in hardware, one in which the stupendous improvements of yesteryear are finally over. Back in 2000-2006, every new generation / iteration of hardware was seeing at least about 20% improvements in some metric. That and everything was changing, constantly, all the time. Moving from DDR-DDR2, IDE-SATA, AGP-PCIE, etc, it was a constant juggle to keep a fast machine together, with the unfortunate early obsolescence of parts due to interface formfactor changes.

I'd say that since the introduction of Core 2, the easy hardware performance gains have been coming to an end. Lithography is reaching it's theoretical maximum limits; and CPUs can only scale so much. Now we're in the era of slow, incremental change. It's gonna be nice to have a machine built today that's still relevant in 2015... wink.gif
you say that but microsoft/intel can change something invisible like ddr4 or thunderbolt rendering anything currently out obsolete. m
at the end of the day it's all business and they gotta keep changing stuff to rejuvenate the market and make money.

im surprised haswell is still using sandy and ivy's socket. i'm sure they have it all planned out how everything's going... we just don't get it.

i dont get why they didn't even just add more cores with haswell...
    
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post #165 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remix65 View Post

you say that but microsoft/intel can change something invisible like ddr4 or thunderbolt rendering anything currently out obsolete. m
at the end of the day it's all business and they gotta keep changing stuff to rejuvenate the market and make money.

im surprised haswell is still using sandy and ivy's socket. i'm sure they have it all planned out how everything's going... we just don't get it.

i dont get why they didn't even just add more cores with haswell...

DDR4: Servers want it, and because it uses less power, it's great for smartphones. It's also a great timing for AMD's APUs, as DDR3 is too slow, and GDDR5 is likely going to be a less flexible approach (must be soldered and need additional CPU cache to compensate for higher memory latency).

Thunderbolt: Good idea, but to expensive to gain much market traction. Intel should've subsidized it, but they didn't, and now even Apple is starting to add USB3 ports to their laptops.

I don't think Haswell can use the same socket as Ivy Bridge. It's cheaper to not worry about socket compatibility. Intel can get away with it because AMD lacks a truly competitive product in the desktop area.

As for the more cores, Intel spent more silicon die for the IGP, and like any other companies, wants to cut expenses by reducing manufacturing costs. I think they're betting that Steamroller/Kaveri won't run over their Haswell.
post #166 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampirr View Post

When I see Intel fanboys quoting Skyrim, Starcraft 2, League Of Legends, World of Warcraft and other games that use 2 or less cores then simply I have this to say:


Intel do just fine in any type of game and AMD only in multi threaded games.
post #167 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Wow, someone who isn't intoxicated on Intel Magic Marketing Fairy Dust. Intel sure managed to get people to think that Sandy Bridge was a massive jump over Nehalem by comparing 3.4ghz/3.8ghz 2600k to 2.66ghz/2.7ghz Nehalem. That nearly 30% clockspeed advantage for SB really made it look a lot better than it was.
People who are infatuated with single core performance remind me of those guys in the beginning of the dual core era that trash talked dual cores non-stop. Now we all pretty much have at least quads, because you need them.

Yet, there are so many on this forum who feel like I bash AMD, I just tell it how it is, regardless of brand.

Everytime something new is released, I always want to see clock for clock results. I can run my 930 with HT ON @ 4.2, Ivy has a 400 MHZ advantage, it's really not that big of deal to me.

The same is on the AMD side, if we look at 8350 vs 8150 @ 4GHZ, the difference is only ~5%, and they both have the same OC ceiling. I'm just stating a factual statement, yet some people will interpret it as me bashing AMD, lol.
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post #168 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghar View Post

Why do you think they would go down? When Intel holds them at the same level, it has better profit. In fact, I seen Intel to introduce stuff at low initial price.
The chips should go down some, but I expect the mobo's to drop quite a bit. That's usually the case when a new socket comes out.
post #169 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

I've been on the same boat as you, and really haven't found a reason to upgrade.

The only reason I'm considering a 4770K is because I have to build a second rig, otherwise, I would ride out this 930 a bit longer. I run it at 4GHZ 24/7, and can easily hit 4.2. Clock your CPU to 4.0 GHZ or so.


Yep, and I've had this performance since 2008/09
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post #170 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinnyD View Post

...It certainly beats just throwing on more and more cores/cranking up the clock speed each year to keep the income flowing. What we are seeing here is a company actually improvising.. Architectural improvements and perfecting the individual core itself should always come first before just throwing on two more cores a year. (The more cores the less balanced the unit as a whole becomes) ...

For them to throw in the towel really means a lot. (I still hold hope that AMD will eventually pull through again someday) But intel is currently doing something which i thought was impossible..improving on something thats already (in my opinion) perfect. Kudos to intel..

As much as i love intel, I still hope someone else comes out of the woodworks and offers intel some healthy much needed competition. I Would hate to see them dominate completely and no longer see the need for performance improvements.

The step from Ivy to Haswell makes one thing clear to me for the tower I want to build this fall/winter... If I go Intel, it'll be an IB and likely a 3770K. But if Steamroller proves to be a legit jump closer to Intel performance, especially in single-threaded task performance and memory controls, then it'll be a much cheaper to upgrade my current tower and stick with AMD, and I will.

AMD threw the towel 10 years ago when they launched the Athlon 64s, got lazy, and didn't look ahead to the future and spend the R&D money when they should have to start up their multi-core processors. They've survived on the cost/performance value of their GPUs, while taking the opposite route of Intel and beefing up the core and clock speed technology. Now, with the jump to Steamroller, and the reduction to 28nm architecture, they're focusing first on APUs and trying to bring the Opteron's on a more even par with the Xeons. And for AMD I think they have the right idea in mind. They don't seem to be wanting to continue the jumps up in cores as much as improving the architecture to catch up and enhance the performance of the speeds they've reached. Let's be honest... 4.2GHz on AMD's top-notch quad-core processor that only costs you $125 is pretty good considering the cheapest Intel quad-core is the 2-yr old Core i5-2310 at about $175, especially when you consider that it shouldn't be too hard to overclock them to 5.5 or better with good cooling and see excellent jumps in the performance. And with AMD (FINALLY) including native memory support for 1866 means it shouldn't be hard to overclock ram to speeds of 2133+... it also make me wonder if the Steamroller will be able to handle DDR3-2400... hey a guy can hope right?

Intel now has to look at expanding their core count, and possibly also will need to start biting their pride and their profit margin and begin price drops of older generation processors. AMD is focused on tightening up the die and reducing the architecture. Although you say that the more cores, the less balanced the processor, I disagree... my FX-8120 has done outstanding, it overclocks very well on a Corsair H80... 4.6 is the highest I've gotten it stable thus far, and while that took 1.4625V to achieve, that's almost a 50% overclock on a mere +.05V jump, for a core design that has been broadly considered by almost everyone to be a flop (Myself included mind you, as it's a pain in the @$$ getting it to control memory above 1866, and that the 990FX chipset screwed us all with no PCI3 support... but getting an i7-3770K and a quality Z77 board would've cost me double of what I spent... budget many times rules what we can buy unfortunately) The only instability problems I had with dialing in overclocks were the result of a bad DIMM stick. Now from what I've read, yeah I got lucky and got one of the very strong Bulldozers... but the Piledriver Vishera CPUs, which you could say is AMD's "Tock" to the Bulldozer, are nipping at the heels of IB. To be honest, AMD is in a great position to make a large competitve jump here... and I'm all for it. I've had both Intel and AMD rigs, but for the cost/performance ratio, the last Intel build I had was a now seemingly archaic P4 2.8B Northwood... in 2002.

Now that I'm at a point where I have the disposable income, I would love to see some genuine competition between Intel and AMD, same as everyone else, because not only will it drive down costs to the mainstream consumer market, it will also spur the drive to make better improvements all the way around, both architecture and tasking, and push the enthusiast market faster, and at cheaper prices for us all. AMD has survived this long because even though they've been a step behind Intel, they can still offer pretty good performance levels at a great value... which is why a lot of Intel enthusiasts have been so unhappy with the cost they're paying. But that tide seems to finally be past it's peak and receding. Grant it Intel has some pretty decent iGPU... but they better focus on making it redonkulous for the next couple platforms, and here's why... AMD now has it's GPU and CPU lines on the same size die, and with all the R&D they're pounding away on right now, it sounds like their plan is to continue that trend... The Richland will launch in the next 4-8 weeks with Radeon 7000 series graphics on board. By the end of 2014 there's a very good chance that AMD will be pushing out high performance, 8+ core APUs with Radeon 8000 or better integrated graphics... I don't see Intel doing anything right now to really improve their integrated graphics to a par that can compete with Radeon 7000 series and beyond... especially if the rumors I'm hearing about AMD wanting to design an APU specific series of boards with additional, separate DIMM slots dedicated strictly for the iGPU... imagine 16GBs of DDR4 memory driving a Radeon HD 8000 series chipset...

I think that this is where AMD stands to gain the most ground fastest, and quite possibly with great success if they do it right, and really make a push that forces Intel to press much harder than they have been for the last 5 years. Steamroller is either going to make all of us happy by actually living up to it's hype, or it will fail and it will be at least 2-3 more years of Intel dominance, but only if you're willing to pay far more. I don't care who's are the best.... I just want to see an honestly competitive market again so $200-300 CPUs deliver far more than what they currently do.
Edited by SpacemanSpliff - 5/18/13 at 3:43pm
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