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[PCG] Nvidia surprised the Titan outsold the year-old GTX 690 in just 3 months. - Page 26  

post #251 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by NABBO View Post

but in short, what it will cost 780?
I want to understand, how stupid I was to take 2x Titan from 1 to 10 lol omg rotfl

biggrin.gif

$649.
 
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post #252 of 338
Still wondering how the Titan has less display connections than a 690.

Sounds like someone's lack of personal experience with the card is showing.
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post #253 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by djriful View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaRLiToS View Post

How much time did you spend to write an off topic post??? You are a mod Alatar, remember?

Titan price discussions, multi GPU vs. single GPU, etc. is very much in topic where people discuss the reasons why Titan outsold the 690.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Answered your implied question.

Maybe for people who only play 1080p it's good enough I guess... And yes I'm aware that second bit is preference, but what's the point in buying a tower case if you aren't going to fill it.

That's usually the case though (referring to #1). The difference here is that Titan pretty much solves that problem. It offers performance that's very close to dual GPU solutions while getting rid of the problems they have. A single GPU doesn't need as much fps to feel smooth either due to the bigger frame time variances on dual GPU setups.

As for #2; normal cases are overrated? tongue.gif

"Titan solves that problem"... just LOL. I can't reply any other way. Every review for the Titan that has Crysis 3 in the lineup puts the Titan at 45 FPS or lower... at only 2560x1600. Let alone the 3440x1920 that I run. The card would die. You're dreaming if you think Titan solves anything.

It does not come close to Dual GPUs. Again, you're dreaming. Just scrolling through reviews it's anywhere from "only" 25% slower to 40% slower. If you think that's "close", you must think the 680 and Titan are close too, in which case why didn't you buy one of those?

And ah, the dreaded smoothness claim. If only you could actually back this up, ever, without the assistance of a slow down video!

Replying to your bold statement...

You know I came from GTX 680 SLI to GTX TITAN on the same 1440p monitor.... gaming experiences is a lot smooth on TITAN. Period regardless what's the framerate is. There is literally no frametime shuttering.

I understand some people can see it. I honestly feel bad for those who can. However, that has no bearing on Alatar's claims, or my rebuttal of them.

He says it's a big issue and rubs it in everyone's face, including those who do not see it (hence him needing to add the video) so he can feel superior. That's the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

When you're below 30, every frame helps.

Duh.

Regardless, your claim that the Titan is (relatively) better at higher resolutions is 100% unfounded, and your own graph says you're wrong.
It is hardly my graph, and the vast majority of my game playing, regardless of what game, will be at or near 60 fps (at least for me, because I will turn down settings to get there), and this is where I was about (roughly) playing on dude's 690 rig. But it looked like crap by comparison. And my claim that the titans perform better at higher resolutions comes into play primarily with the sheer amount of vram it has. It isn't terrible difficult to load up a 690's 4GB at any surround resolution. But that isn't the point of this little debate.

You guys don't notice it? Great, buy a 690. Hell, buy two. Of course you are stuck with poor scaling and are limited to only the two... which is yet another reason why so many more Titans are being sold.

Well, if that's your logic, then say that... Don't post a completely irrelevant graph that undermines your point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperTeamTango View Post

And you know nothing about marketing if you truly don't believe the answer doesn't lie somewhere in the middle.

Did Nvidia have a financial incentive to push FCAT (note, that's what they pushed, this frame metering stuff has been out for a while) before Titan's launch? Yes. Does that make the issue any less real? No.
Quote:
But your entire argument in every thread is based on that people will pay a premium for even the smallest of gaps in gains, so why didn't AMD charge more for the 7970s? Oh right. market stabilization.

No, I just said that with the Titan you aren't paying a premium for the smallest gap ever. You're actually getting 32% extra over a 7970GHz which is a huge difference by any standards in the GPU world.
Quote:
Remember building PCs has to be a better alternative than buying a console, loosing both companies customers doesn't benefit anyone. (Aka killing a market with inflation)

Not every part has the same purpose. Titan isn't there for the budget buyer. That's what the lower end cards are for.
Quote:
Entirely your opinion but again you're welcome to it. Something completely impercieveable to me isn't worth an extra $700 (larger than the $600 gap between a 30k and 60x here btw, which I find interesting, finland, right?)

32% extra perf and better frame times isn't perceivable to you? Why not use a 7850 or something then? And the price gap between a 7970GHz and a Titan is just over 500€ here. Price gap between a 3930K and 3960X is around 450-500€ depending on the store. I've paid 1100€ because I've bought two.
Quote:
Nothing wrong with doing it, alot wrong with condemning others for not doing it.

No one has condemned people for going the price/perf route. If anything there are a bunch of people saying that Titan users got scammed, that they cause high pricing or have more money than sense.
Quote:
What percentage of this thread has been about frametime issues, price performance, etc, etc.

Don't see how this is relevant to my point. As I said Nvidia cards don't at the moment have as big frame time issues as AMD cards do. Since the thread is about 690 vs. titan it's obvious why frame times come up.
Quote:
Forgive me for not taking a test entirely seriously when I do not personally get to see numeric results. Not to mention, there's 0 qualitative statement there. Its just a number of people.

It was a small test of 10 people, each one of them chose the 690 setup as the smoother one. You can find a video and some other stuff in Tom's 7990 review. If it's still invalid in your opinion then you're basically telling me that the test is a lie simply because they didn't make a table that says all users preferred the 690 setup.
Quote:
Really so you're telling me your eye can track the path of a speeding bullet? Iiiiiinteresting. Let me guess you can also tell when a lightbulb turns on in the distance? And how long it takes the light to reach your eye too? We are talking about occasional issues, with milliseconds of issues.

Not understanding the issue at all which is probably why you're making all these strawman arguments. See the problem here is that you're saying we can't tell the difference when it's about just a few milliseconds.

If that's truly your opinion then let me ask you something; Can you tell the difference between 45 and 30fps? I'm sure most enthusiasts would tell you that they can. Then according to your logic they can see a ~10ms difference.

Unfortunately saying that you can't notice anything in x milliseconds is missing the point entirely.
Quote:
And I can explain why that pill made entirely of sugar cured your headache too. Come on.

No, I'm saying aspirin cured my headache. Comparing the issues to a placebo is extremely invalid unless all the setups perform and act exactly the same.

Making me compare two Titan setups and saying one of them was a 7990, and then me saying that I see the differences would be a placebo effect. Seeing the difference between the 7990 and the Titan isn't because the difference is actually objectively there.
Quote:
You really mean to tell me occasional things like that are really, really, ruining your gaming experience? Something you definitely wouldn't get in benchmarking AFAIK, and honestly, you're playing the wrong games if that is where your focus is.

I'm playing the wrong games because I want smooth gameplay? And yes, gameplay that looks like 30fps while I'm actually getting 60 is ruining my gameplay experience.
Quote:
And I can show you pictures of crops with interesting patters in them showing how they might be aliens trying to communicate with us all day long too, but would you take me seriously?

Really? I mean really? Crop circles? Comparing them to actual proof posted? Can we please have a conversation about this instead of just pulling complete strawmen from absolutely nothing.
Quote:
Lab tests and actual perception are 2 completely different animals.

Not really when you see the same stuff in both situations.

It's fine to say you don't see the effect and if so then good for you. But just because you say that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's been proven to exist and has been proven to be very much noticeable by users.
Quote:
Oh, and just a reminder, seeing as titan owners were screaming this across the boards when it came out, 7990 is not even in public hands yet (at least not in my country's) so let the drivers mature more. The arguments work both ways guys.

I don't argue that Titan drivers should mature. I think everything should work out of the box. The 7990 doesn't.
Quote:
EDIT FOR FAIR ARGUMENT SAKE: I did watch the video until the slowmos just now.

Know what I think it is, I don't play games at these retardedly demanding settings and look for these things, I did see a couple (1-2) frames out of sync, and yes, online that would bother me. I do however refer to my driver maturity argument.

If you can't see the difference then I don't know what to tell you. That's the difference between 20 and 40 fps... So great for you I guess? You obviously can't see framerate differences or big stutters in gameplay that have been proven to be there.
Quote:
Also, side note as I would like to learn, howcome these measuring tools are just hitting the floors now if this has been known about for a couple years?

Because the issue is somewhat complicated and software development takes a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

"Titan solves that problem"... just LOL. I can't reply any other way. Every review for the Titan that has Crysis 3 in the lineup puts the Titan at 45 FPS or lower... at only 2560x1600. Let alone the 3440x1920 that I run. The card would die. You're dreaming if you think Titan solves anything.

In cases where the Titan is under 45fps you're not going to get much better results with lower end dual cards either.

So Titan doesn't solve anything but 8% faster 7950 CFX that can't deliver smooth frame rates does?



http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/60166-nvidia-gtx-titan-vs-sli-crossfire-15.html

Quote:
It does not come close to Dual GPUs. Again, you're dreaming. Just scrolling through reviews it's anywhere from "only" 25% slower to 40% slower. If you think that's "close", you must think the 680 and Titan are close too, in which case why didn't you buy one of those?

See above.

And see this:



Yes, such massive differences especially when you consider that single GPUs don't need as much fps to feel as smooth as dual GPUs do due to frame time variances. If want to keep 60fps you'll nee much lower frame times/higher frame rates with dual GPUs to always keep the frame time under 16.7ms which is what a steady 60fps is
Quote:
And ah, the dreaded smoothness claim. If only you could actually back this up, ever, without the assistance of a slow down video!

It was just backed up with a non slow-mo video....

And for further proof just see any frame metering review from the past year. Full of proof, even AMD themselves have admitted the issues. Calling them fake is pure denial, nothing more.
Quote:

Ya know, I wasn't actually going to post this originally, but I feel that if you're going to make a big deal out of a small issue most can't even see...

You spent all your money on a ferrari. All the people who bought GTs and souped them up are kicking your ass, and all you can find to complain about is the smoothness of the ride. The only problem, is the race is taking place on an airport runway, and only a few can even tell the difference.

Remember, it's still only a ferrari. You are not the fastest guy on the road. Know where you stand alatar, because I notice how it's only the guys who don't have the GT who claims the ride sucks, and it's the ones who bought a ferrari who complain the loudest.



(Thinking you can even hope to catch those GTs just shows how bad you wish your ferrari was better too)

If there ever was a bad time for a car analogy it's this one.

If all you care is fps that doesn't correlate with the gaming experience then great. But please do not refute proven facts by simply saying that people don't notice them. Obviously they do since pretty much all reviewers noted the smoothness issues with their 7990 reviews.

I'll take a comfortable slower car as my daily driver any day. Especially when the only place where you can use that speed of yours is the runway. While in normal use you're limited to 60mph. See I can do it too.

Quote:
Empty test benches are ugly too btw, they're only pretty when they look like this:



And/or (preferably and) have an LN2 pot on them.

Not really, managing 4 GPUs just messes up all the cable management.

I'll take the clean route:



Especially with extreme cooling that needs space:


I can afford dual 7950s. The argument is not against my cards, but against a 690 or similar. On topic, remember?

Also, 3440x1920 is closer to 5760x1080. Higher than it in fact. That's 11% faster for 60% the price.


Ya, that's it, make up things. You have zero proof dual-GPU needs more frames to feel smooth.

*waits for the video again*


No, you posted it and SAID it backed you up.

Except people then said the video didn't matter, because they didn't see it.

Gee, ya know, if only we could get paid for claiming things as fact, huh?


Your car can't even do 30 at the resolutions I play on. Get off the highway before someone hits you. wink.gif
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post #254 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by djriful View Post

$649.

based on the price of the Titan, $ 649/699 would be logical.

but if 780 is $ 500, so I feel completely an ******* 100%, taking the Titan
post #255 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by NABBO View Post

based on the price of the Titan, $ 649/699 would be logical.

but if 780 is $ 500, so I feel completely an ******* 100%, taking the Titan
Da hell? I know I have seen you before on another forum. But I have no idea where...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post

Still wondering how the Titan has less display connections than a 690.

Sounds like someone's lack of personal experience with the card is showing.

*Chirp Chirp*
Edited by Masta Squidge - 5/19/13 at 1:07am
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post #256 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post

I love you.

I have loved you.
we have sex 3. you can not see from my avatar as they are beautiful? lachen.gif

hahahahahahahhahahah

boys joke wink.gif
post #257 of 338
god your english is terrible rofl! But I am still positive I have ran into you on another forum somewhere.
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post #258 of 338
<--- runs penta screen eyefinity 90% of the time. (Right now being done with software hacks) So to run at 1080 I'd be chucking 4 screens out. I'm just saying, that's one thing a 7990 has the floor on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Did Nvidia have a financial incentive to push FCAT (note, that's what they pushed, this frame metering stuff has been out for a while) before Titan's launch? Yes. Does that make the issue any less real? No.
Yes it does, if that isn't how it works, then the media wouldn't be successful at all. I'm probably having trouble making this point without using the word sensationalist.
Quote:
No, I just said that with the Titan you aren't paying a premium for the smallest gap ever. You're actually getting 32% extra over a 7970GHz which is a huge difference by any standards in the GPU world.
I don't agree though, 30% doesn't impress me when there's options another 30% further ahead at the same price point. (This is why I don't get how P/P is irrelevant to you guys, especially you who has 1 card not 4.
Quote:
Not every part has the same purpose. Titan isn't there for the budget buyer. That's what the lower end cards are for.
I don't know what the point of that statement was seeing as my whole point was this is a dangerous president to set. As a bencher IDK if you see it this way.
Quote:


32% extra perf and better frame times isn't perceivable to you? Why not use a 7850 or something then? And the price gap between a 7970GHz and a Titan is just over 500€ here. Price gap between a 3930K and 3960X is around 450-500€ depending on the store. I've paid 1100€ because I've bought two.
The better frametimes isn't something I have honestly EVER encountered, and to be honest I've really tried. I don't see a difference above 50FPS either, however I do see a big difference between 1280*1024 and 6750*1024 which is why I use 7950s thumb.gif Vram bro.

Quote:
No one has condemned people for going the price/perf route. If anything there are a bunch of people saying that Titan users got scammed, that they cause high pricing or have more money than sense.
I appologize if thats how I'm coming off, enjoy your product everyone, just don't expect everyone to understand. Although I still don't buy into this occasional frame lag killing your gameplay experience.
Quote:
Don't see how this is relevant to my point. As I said Nvidia cards don't at the moment have as big frame time issues as AMD cards do. Since the thread is about 690 vs. titan it's obvious why frame times come up.
Actually my comment about being off topic refers to another post that I will PM you sooner than quote seeing as we're doing really well right now.
Quote:
It was a small test of 10 people, each one of them chose the 690 setup as the smoother one. You can find a video and some other stuff in Tom's 7990 review. If it's still invalid in your opinion then you're basically telling me that the test is a lie simply because they didn't make a table that says all users preferred the 690 setup.
No I'm telling you its still 3rd party evidence and 1 study will NEVER be enough to get me to believe something. There's a reason I believe in redundancy, incase mistakes are made.
Quote:
Not understanding the issue at all which is probably why you're making all these strawman arguments. See the problem here is that you're saying we can't tell the difference when it's about just a few milliseconds.

If that's truly your opinion then let me ask you something; Can you tell the difference between 45 and 30fps? I'm sure most enthusiasts would tell you that they can. Then according to your logic they can see a ~10ms difference.

Unfortunately saying that you can't notice anything in x milliseconds is missing the point entirely.
Its not quite a strawman, because fractions of a second on a low frequency occurrence shouldn't be the big deal you're making it to be. This is like hitting a pothole once a KM and whinging on about the road being bumpy and not well made. Come on. It happens. Also to your question I honestly don't know, seeing as I've never cared to check, my game looks good, I play, and occasionally I win and get monnies.
Quote:
No, I'm saying aspirin cured my headache. Comparing the issues to a placebo is extremely invalid unless all the setups perform and act exactly the same.

Making me compare two Titan setups and saying one of them was a 7990, and then me saying that I see the differences would be a placebo effect. Seeing the difference between the 7990 and the Titan isn't because the difference is actually objectively there.
But I don't agree with you that its there as prominently as you make it out to be and there in lies the issue, all this circlejerking is a matter of perspective.
Quote:

I'm playing the wrong games because I want smooth gameplay? And yes, gameplay that looks like 30fps while I'm actually getting 60 is ruining my gameplay experience.
No way you'll get me to believe its that bad. IT sure as hell wasn't in that video.
Quote:
Really? I mean really? Crop circles? Comparing them to actual proof posted? Can we please have a conversation about this instead of just pulling complete strawmen from absolutely nothing.
A: I kinda was trying to be funny. B: A doctored test with slomo views. Come on. I'd make a magician and a rabbit comparison here too.
Quote:
Not really when you see the same stuff in both situations.

It's fine to say you don't see the effect and if so then good for you. But just because you say that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's been proven to exist and has been proven to be very much noticeable by users.
But again, not to the level its being made into.
Quote:
I don't argue that Titan drivers should mature. I think everything should work out of the box. The 7990 doesn't.
Did I miss a memo where the titan was flawless out of box right off the bat too? Or the 7000 series and 600 series in general? Nope, I didn't. Software in GENERAL gets better over time.
Quote:
If you can't see the difference then I don't know what to tell you. That's the difference between 20 and 40 fps... So great for you I guess? You obviously can't see framerate differences or big stutters in gameplay that have been proven to be there.
The only reason I can identify below 30 is my screens start falling out of sync. That's the advantage of not pressing onces face into the monitor.
Quote:
Because the issue is somewhat complicated and software development takes a while...
fair enough. thumb.gif
Quote:

In cases where the Titan is under 45fps you're not going to get much better results with lower end dual cards either.
True, but this is kinda really generic to every high end card config ever.
Quote:
So Titan doesn't solve anything but 8% faster 7950 CFX that can't deliver smooth frame rates does?



http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/60166-nvidia-gtx-titan-vs-sli-crossfire-15.html
See above.

And see this:



Yes, such massive differences especially when you consider that single GPUs don't need as much fps to feel as smooth as dual GPUs do due to frame time variances. If want to keep 60fps you'll nee much lower frame times/higher frame rates with dual GPUs to always keep the frame time under 16.7ms which is what a steady 60fps is
It was just backed up with a non slow-mo video....

And for further proof just see any frame metering review from the past year. Full of proof, even AMD themselves have admitted the issues. Calling them fake is pure denial, nothing more.
If there ever was a bad time for a car analogy it's this one.

If all you care is fps that doesn't correlate with the gaming experience then great. But please do not refute proven facts by simply saying that people don't notice them. Obviously they do since pretty much all reviewers noted the smoothness issues with their 7990 reviews.

I'll take a comfortable slower car as my daily driver any day. Especially when the only place where you can use that speed of yours is the runway. While in normal use you're limited to 60mph. See I can do it too.
Not really, managing 4 GPUs just messes up all the cable management.

I'll take the clean route:



Especially with extreme cooling that needs space:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post

It is hardly my graph, and the vast majority of my game playing, regardless of what game, will be at or near 60 fps, and this is where I was about (roughly) playing on dude's 690 rig. But it looked like crap by comparison. And my claim that the titans perform better at higher resolutions comes into play primarily with the sheer amount of vram it has. It isn't terrible difficult to load up a 690's 4GB at any surround resolution. But that isn't the point of this little debate.

You guys don't notice it? Great, buy a 690. Hell, buy two. Of course you are stuck with poor scaling and are limited to only the two... which is yet another reason why so many more Titans are being sold.

Also something that can only do 3 screen surround isn't exactly doing well in high resolution in my enthusiast opinion Idk of anything maxing 3gb of vram on anything but >5760 resolutions.

Because titan's scale so well too rolleyes.gif
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post #259 of 338
One reason Titan has outsold the 690 is because,at this point in time, spending $1.000,00 on a card with only 2GB of ram is a tough sell over the Titan, even though it doesn't hurt the 690, it is people perception of the 2 versus the 6GB that one sees,........i say this because it is what swayed me towards the Titan, i WANTED the 690, but, after realizing that, even though it is SOLD as "4GB", it was actually only 2, so, Titan it was,.......
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post #260 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post

god your english is terrible rofl!
hahahahaha

check my signature biggrin.gif
Quote:
But I am still positive
biggrin.gif
Quote:
I have ran into you on another forum somewhere.

I remember you wink.gif
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [PCG] Nvidia surprised the Titan outsold the year-old GTX 690 in just 3 months.