Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Keyboards › Cherry MX Red switches for typing?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Cherry MX Red switches for typing? - Page 6

post #51 of 59
it's hard for gaterons to become big(ger) when cherry is already such a big name. cherry mx is the standard because it's by far the most known brand to gamers and "casual mech enthusiasts".
i think the majority of coders also still searches for keyboard with cherry mx switches.
besides, gateron are almost, if not totally identical except for material used or something. people probably just figure they are cheaper knock offs from cherries. i certainly didn't care to try them because of how similar they are

on geekhack there will probably be a group buy soon for a keyboard using magnetic (hall effect) switches, now that's interesting! in china, it's already a thing apparently.
post #52 of 59
Gateron switches are not similar but are actually better than the Cherry MX counterparts. The switches are much smoother. This is especially true on Gateron Browns since typing on MX Browns is like typing on sandpaper (hard to describe but it's a scratchy feeling) but on Gateron Browns it's silky smooth. Also Gateron Browns have sharper bumps and IMO, much better sound. After typing on a Gateron Brown keyboard I'll never type on another MX Brown keyboard again! Sadly I had to RMA and refund it and now have to resort to a MX Red keyboard since Gateron keyboard is too expensive here. If you are living in where you can get Gateron keyboards easily, I highly recommend you try them out.

I agree that Cherry MX have a monopoly on the market and I don't like this trend. At least we're seeing progress - Razer uses Kalih switches (which are inferior to the MX ones), while Cooler Master made some Topre keyboards. We need major players making Gateron keyboards tongue.gif
PC for Everything
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-4770K ASRock Fatal1ty Z87 Killer Nvidia GeForce GTX 660 16GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Transcend SSD340 128GB WD RE Enterprise 3TB WD Red 4TB Seagate Barracuda 2TB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
HGST Ultrastar 7K6000 6TB Seagate Backup Plus 2TB LG HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GH22NS50 Imation IMW241040IAB 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Cooler Master Hyper 212X Windows 10 Pro x64 Eizo FlexScan EV2455 (24.1" 16:10) Cooler Master Masterkeys Pro S + Leopold FC 210TP 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair AX750 Cooler Master CM 690 III Roccat Kova 2016 / Roccat Kone Pure Military Roccat Hiro / Artisan Hayate Otsu / Artisan Sh... 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Musical Fidelity V-DAC MK-II Harman Kardon HK980 Q Acoustics 3020 Shure SRH1540 
Other
Editors Keys SL300 USB Microphone 
  hide details  
Reply
PC for Everything
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-4770K ASRock Fatal1ty Z87 Killer Nvidia GeForce GTX 660 16GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Transcend SSD340 128GB WD RE Enterprise 3TB WD Red 4TB Seagate Barracuda 2TB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
HGST Ultrastar 7K6000 6TB Seagate Backup Plus 2TB LG HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GH22NS50 Imation IMW241040IAB 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Cooler Master Hyper 212X Windows 10 Pro x64 Eizo FlexScan EV2455 (24.1" 16:10) Cooler Master Masterkeys Pro S + Leopold FC 210TP 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair AX750 Cooler Master CM 690 III Roccat Kova 2016 / Roccat Kone Pure Military Roccat Hiro / Artisan Hayate Otsu / Artisan Sh... 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Musical Fidelity V-DAC MK-II Harman Kardon HK980 Q Acoustics 3020 Shure SRH1540 
Other
Editors Keys SL300 USB Microphone 
  hide details  
Reply
post #53 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucake View Post

it's hard for gaterons to become big(ger) when cherry is already such a big name. cherry mx is the standard because it's by far the most known brand to gamers and "casual mech enthusiasts".
i think the majority of coders also still searches for keyboard with cherry mx switches.
besides, gateron are almost, if not totally identical except for material used or something. people probably just figure they are cheaper knock offs from cherries. i certainly didn't care to try them because of how similar they are

on geekhack there will probably be a group buy soon for a keyboard using magnetic (hall effect) switches, now that's interesting! in china, it's already a thing apparently.

Gateron switch yields are fairly poor, so that coupled with limited manufacturing capacity will mean it will be almost impossible for a big company to use them.

As far as magnetic switches go, Honeywell has had them for ages. There are a lot of moving parts and electronics adding failure points, and hysteresis is hard to control so I am surprised it is getting used again. It's not like the longevity is a factor these days with enthusiasts replacing keyboards well before lifetime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by helliace View Post

Gateron switches are not similar but are actually better than the Cherry MX counterparts. The switches are much smoother. This is especially true on Gateron Browns since typing on MX Browns is like typing on sandpaper (hard to describe but it's a scratchy feeling) but on Gateron Browns it's silky smooth. Also Gateron Browns have sharper bumps and IMO, much better sound. After typing on a Gateron Brown keyboard I'll never type on another MX Brown keyboard again! Sadly I had to RMA and refund it and now have to resort to a MX Red keyboard since Gateron keyboard is too expensive here. If you are living in where you can get Gateron keyboards easily, I highly recommend you try them out.

I agree that Cherry MX have a monopoly on the market and I don't like this trend. At least we're seeing progress - Razer uses Kalih switches (which are inferior to the MX ones), while Cooler Master made some Topre keyboards. We need major players making Gateron keyboards tongue.gif

Cooler Master is not going on the Novatouch/Topre train anytime soon again. The Novatouch TKL is EOL now, and was a poor seller unfortunately.
post #54 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by geggeg View Post

Gateron switch yields are fairly poor, so that coupled with limited manufacturing capacity will mean it will be almost impossible for a big company to use them.

As far as magnetic switches go, Honeywell has had them for ages. There are a lot of moving parts and electronics adding failure points, and hysteresis is hard to control so I am surprised it is getting used again. It's not like the longevity is a factor these days with enthusiasts replacing keyboards well before lifetime.
Cooler Master is not going on the Novatouch/Topre train anytime soon again. The Novatouch TKL is EOL now, and was a poor seller unfortunately.

A well designed magnetic reed switch would actually be ideal for a keyboard.

Their major disadvantages are irrelevant in an enthusiast keyboard (we aren't sending huge current through the switches, and at least I'd hope that enthusiasts with expensive keyboards aren't hammering on them with carpentry tools). Hysteresis control isn't significantly different than what you already find in modern mechanical switches, and there aren't any additional moving parts inherent to a magnetic reed switch (although designers are free to over-complicate things if they desire).

Their major benefits on the other hand involve decoupling the physical button from the switch actuation (which allows for much more flexible design options, easier maintenance, etc), and completely sealed switch contacts that are immune to dust and other ingress.

A lesser but still valid benefit is longevity if properly cared for. As long as you aren't bashing the glass tubes or overloading the switches, they should significantly outlast mechanical switches.

The added costs are the real barrier to magnetic switches in keyboards, but enthusiast keyboards have never been particularly cheap.
Arcane
(33 items)
 
Sanctum
(9 items)
 
Fukurou
(15 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 MSI B350M Mortar Arctic RX Vega 64 G.Skill TridentZ  
Hard DriveHard DriveOSPower
Samsung EVO 960 Consatellation Windows 10 Pro Corsair HX 1050 
Case
Raijintek Aeneas White Window 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
Core i5-661 GA-H55-USB3 12GB DDR3 1333 WD Caviar Black AALS 640GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
WD Caviar Green EARS 2TB Vertex Turbo 60GB (SSD) Samsung Blu-ray, Samsung DVD Burner H50 (With push/pull nocturas) 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Professional 64 LG 47inch LED LCD Saitek Eclipse Lite-touch Wireless Seasonic X750 Gold 
CaseAudio
CM690 II Passive bookshelfspeakers + amp. 
  hide details  
Reply
Arcane
(33 items)
 
Sanctum
(9 items)
 
Fukurou
(15 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 MSI B350M Mortar Arctic RX Vega 64 G.Skill TridentZ  
Hard DriveHard DriveOSPower
Samsung EVO 960 Consatellation Windows 10 Pro Corsair HX 1050 
Case
Raijintek Aeneas White Window 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
Core i5-661 GA-H55-USB3 12GB DDR3 1333 WD Caviar Black AALS 640GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
WD Caviar Green EARS 2TB Vertex Turbo 60GB (SSD) Samsung Blu-ray, Samsung DVD Burner H50 (With push/pull nocturas) 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Professional 64 LG 47inch LED LCD Saitek Eclipse Lite-touch Wireless Seasonic X750 Gold 
CaseAudio
CM690 II Passive bookshelfspeakers + amp. 
  hide details  
Reply
post #55 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

A well designed magnetic reed switch would actually be ideal for a keyboard.

Their major disadvantages are irrelevant in an enthusiast keyboard (we aren't sending huge current through the switches, and at least I'd hope that enthusiasts with expensive keyboards aren't hammering on them with carpentry tools). Hysteresis control isn't significantly different than what you already find in modern mechanical switches, and there aren't any additional moving parts inherent to a magnetic reed switch (although designers are free to over-complicate things if they desire).

Their major benefits on the other hand involve decoupling the physical button from the switch actuation (which allows for much more flexible design options, easier maintenance, etc), and completely sealed switch contacts that are immune to dust and other ingress.

A lesser but still valid benefit is longevity if properly cared for. As long as you aren't bashing the glass tubes or overloading the switches, they should significantly outlast mechanical switches.

The added costs are the real barrier to magnetic switches in keyboards, but enthusiast keyboards have never been particularly cheap.

DIY might be a hard sell. I am looking from the perspective of needing a different skill set on top of soldering and simple mechanical parts, so the average enthusiast (an extremely niche user as it is) may not have the resources to do it him/herself. Companies doing it using experienced workers and technicians has potential though, I will agree.

Anyone got links to these Chinese boards using magnetic switches?
post #56 of 59
i have big heavy hands and i hated reds. Bule are the only way to go after using them . I love feeling the click , then noise is awesome as well
post #57 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by geggeg View Post

DIY might be a hard sell. I am looking from the perspective of needing a different skill set on top of soldering and simple mechanical parts, so the average enthusiast (an extremely niche user as it is) may not have the resources to do it him/herself. Companies doing it using experienced workers and technicians has potential though, I will agree.

Anyone got links to these Chinese boards using magnetic switches?

I unfortunately do not know of any magnetic reed switch keyboards still in production.

Optical switches on the other hand are starting to get a little traction between A4tech's LightStrike and Adomax's Flaretech switches.

I can't really see any advantage to optical switches over magnetic switches when it comes to keyboard design, although they still outclass mechanical switches in many ways.
Arcane
(33 items)
 
Sanctum
(9 items)
 
Fukurou
(15 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 MSI B350M Mortar Arctic RX Vega 64 G.Skill TridentZ  
Hard DriveHard DriveOSPower
Samsung EVO 960 Consatellation Windows 10 Pro Corsair HX 1050 
Case
Raijintek Aeneas White Window 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
Core i5-661 GA-H55-USB3 12GB DDR3 1333 WD Caviar Black AALS 640GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
WD Caviar Green EARS 2TB Vertex Turbo 60GB (SSD) Samsung Blu-ray, Samsung DVD Burner H50 (With push/pull nocturas) 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Professional 64 LG 47inch LED LCD Saitek Eclipse Lite-touch Wireless Seasonic X750 Gold 
CaseAudio
CM690 II Passive bookshelfspeakers + amp. 
  hide details  
Reply
Arcane
(33 items)
 
Sanctum
(9 items)
 
Fukurou
(15 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 MSI B350M Mortar Arctic RX Vega 64 G.Skill TridentZ  
Hard DriveHard DriveOSPower
Samsung EVO 960 Consatellation Windows 10 Pro Corsair HX 1050 
Case
Raijintek Aeneas White Window 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
Core i5-661 GA-H55-USB3 12GB DDR3 1333 WD Caviar Black AALS 640GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
WD Caviar Green EARS 2TB Vertex Turbo 60GB (SSD) Samsung Blu-ray, Samsung DVD Burner H50 (With push/pull nocturas) 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Professional 64 LG 47inch LED LCD Saitek Eclipse Lite-touch Wireless Seasonic X750 Gold 
CaseAudio
CM690 II Passive bookshelfspeakers + amp. 
  hide details  
Reply
post #58 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by helliace View Post

Gateron switches are not similar but are actually better than the Cherry MX counterparts.

not similar? it's pretty much a 1:1 replica.
but i agree that a difference in smoothness of stroke makes a big difference in how nice a switch feels. i'm not arguing that gaterons are better or worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by geggeg View Post

As far as magnetic switches go, Honeywell has had them for ages. There are a lot of moving parts and electronics adding failure points, and hysteresis is hard to control so I am surprised it is getting used again. It's not like the longevity is a factor these days with enthusiasts replacing keyboards well before lifetime.

yeah, but that was in the 60s or 70s or whatever. the reason i brought them up is because it's new for magnetic-based switches to be in new / usb keyboards. those switches pretty much last forever unless treated absolutely terribly. unlike something like cherries which will wear, and you have to deal with debouncing.

but i can imagine they might be too expensive for esports. tbh i think we'll be stuck with cherry mx and their clones for a while. if only because of familiarity and relatively low cost


edit: link to deskthority or link to geekhack
- the mount is cherry mx compatible so you can find a ton of keycaps for it
- nkey rollover
- rgb lighting
- and it's water proof, lol

apparently this will be the keyboard for the groupbuy:
pRZQtGkyR2bkzUPm2LKEt0IFMuPzqxks4z3zzHW73z-NP4zWpLtDY_-RD77aA4sb_WKaVvkkbp7_2W-qFqhNE2pZ2BkRkWDZ8aryo2M3cEPW0gzNYOjpgktgYVblJVDsagegoTX8rySZ3mU23T55tMIrPuCM1WDHNuXtuN6yXIQYciSWRFPm8pkTCafOV7UR8VB1oOix5Cc8S_AQZikPLOAAoA76awNhNw3_ACVq59sD9DasWNTRmB7fF3o_msC7aIz843kkwaXmdmNL2Dl04GIRdpW2DYdyadCAPmwlHwzJcfhySVF9TzE0dsfgaoHvc5QJJBOr5Qn2eoo0rsQtoXbUDHkvz5Wvq2dJFpBw4R9AOL-9DA72VtWkryBAVLqbawxTn_bRzK3cT5LcxoliDZ56TLw1PAc0-D30xIBXCe1HvQQle648oojHqYs248CDtU_y_yEvYiORshiqJxDSyF3BDY6NLJV--t6ogBX_rRFqsjaAFsDoprh1kq0qNeowNQyjC9iltKMSlWSQPapQu__yoeMRrFJGrhV6bLGlESQ9ww7tN2UA-TvOndH_tqxRc-Hp6Cvy4H393KW4qPmxRM0-eyF__RvC5IPVtyy6EKztTmoJzg=w676-h499-no[img]
Edited by Bucake - 10/1/16 at 11:04pm
post #59 of 59
I will agree also that Gateron switches are noticeably smoother than MX Cherry switches. I have a switch tester with a few MX Cherry Reds in it and my current keyboard is all Gateron Reds. its much smoother and lighter, you can even notice the smoother plastic stem on the Gateron switch as compared to the MX Cherry red. Gateron makes a quality "knock-off" MX Cherry, don't they also produce the purple Zealio switch which is hailed as one of the top-tier switches up there with Topres and Matias?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Keyboards
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Keyboards › Cherry MX Red switches for typing?