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post #41 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldExclusive View Post

What's the definition of a full game? A game that's never updated with new content after release?

The 90's development model makes sense in today's internet age. rolleyes.gif

BF3 has 29 Maps with DLC. A full game at launch would have a max of 9 maps. Is that all you want to satisfy you?
No dev in the world will make 20 more maps of BF3/4's scale fore free. People are making 80K+ salaries, and the dev has to make money to pay them to work.

Instead of emotionally raging, people need to think logically.

I completely disagree with you and you seem to either not have been around for the community maps or community mod era of gaming.

I love old Unreal Tournaments, but even take a look at TF2. The game ships with barely any maps, but you know what? There's a ton of awesome maps for the game made by people who play the game.

EDIT: And to top it off, they've taken away your ability to host your own servers, which is another useless hurdle that offers no benefit to the end user other than giving EA more control over their software. This prevents people from modding the game further and allowing EA to essential charge money for what was free in the past as community mods /edit

My problem with what EA is doing is that they're basically taking away people's abilities to make their own maps, and then EA themselves are making maps and selling them. It greatly, greatly reduces the value of the game as per dollar spent.

I'm looking here and comparing to the amount of maps, game modes, etc that were added to games in the past and comparing it to the DLC you get and it's not very favorable to EA. I look at these DLC packs for BF series like CTF, and I just shake my head. That was the kind of stuff that started as a community mod and servers like that would exist for free back in the day. Now you have to pay?

They're taking things away from us, and that's my problem. We get nothing better out of EA's approach to more content in a game over UT's or Valve's. In fact, it's actually far worse because you end up spending more money on less content with EA.

And don't get me started about the quality, either. EA official work has so many errors. UV maps that aren't done right, things floating in the air, bad physics (walk through one beam, not another), missing textures on pipes. There's so much that's rushed and horrible about BF3 that playing it and spending time to soak in the graphics (which is a big selling point right? Awesome graphics) leaves you realizing that it's a turd dressed up in a fancy game engine.
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post #42 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

I respectfully disagree. There is no correlation between those two things, at all.

Game devs point out that they either have a budget to make awesome visuals or make awesome gameplay. It's very expensive and a challenging to do both.
Can a indie dev make large scale AAA FPS game on a 1 million dollar budget, with a small team? How long will it take to finish? Will it challenge BF and COD for the top spot in sales and quality? Would you buy it for $60 if it doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

I completely disagree with you and you seem to either not have been around for the community maps or community mod era of gaming.

I love old Unreal Tournaments, but even take a look at TF2. The game ships with barely any maps, but you know what? There's a ton of awesome maps for the game made by people who play the game.

EDIT: And to top it off, they've taken away your ability to host your own servers, which is another useless hurdle that offers no benefit to the end user other than giving EA more control over their software. This prevents people from modding the game further and allowing EA to essential charge money for what was free in the past as community mods /edit

My problem with what EA is doing is that they're basically taking away people's abilities to make their own maps, and then EA themselves are making maps and selling them. It greatly, greatly reduces the value of the game as per dollar spent.

I'm looking here and comparing to the amount of maps, game modes, etc that were added to games in the past and comparing it to the DLC you get and it's not very favorable to EA. I look at these DLC packs for BF series like CTF, and I just shake my head. That was the kind of stuff that started as a community mod and servers like that would exist for free back in the day. Now you have to pay?

They're taking things away from us, and that's my problem. We get nothing better out of EA's approach to more content in a game over UT's or Valve's. In fact, it's actually far worse because you end up spending more money on less content with EA.

And don't get me started about the quality, either. EA official work has so many errors. UV maps that aren't done right, things floating in the air, bad physics (walk through one beam, not another), missing textures on pipes. There's so much that's rushed and horrible about BF3 that playing it and spending time to soak in the graphics (which is a big selling point right? Awesome graphics) leaves you realizing that it's a turd dressed up in a fancy game engine.

My point was about the budget need to produce a AAA game in "todays" gaming market.
DLC drive the budgets of these games. The 90s business model doesn't work anymore for todays AAA games. Competition and labor costs are too high.

User content will always be better than dev DLC. Yes, I've played modded maps since the 90s so I do understand.
Would I like to have a "complete" game with mod tools? Of course! Will it happen now that consoles drive the game market, probably not.
Edited by WorldExclusive - 5/19/13 at 12:00pm
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post #43 of 82
what? you dont have bf4 preorder including premium package?
Battlefield 4: Premium Expansion Pack

and that all for 39,99eur
best smile.gif
revro
post #44 of 82
The idea of dlc even before the game is out make me want to vomit. The gaming world is dying slowly....
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post #45 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldExclusive View Post

Game devs point out that they either have a budget to make awesome visuals or make awesome gameplay. It's very expensive and a challenging to do both.
Can a indie dev make large scale AAA FPS game on a 1 million dollar budget, with a small team? How long will it take to finish? Will it challenge BF and COD for the top spot in sales and quality? Would you buy it for $60 if it doesn't?
My point was about the budget need to produce a AAA game in "todays" gaming market.
DLC drive the budgets of these games. The 90s business model doesn't work anymore for todays AAA games. Competition and labor costs are too high.

User content will always be better than dev DLC. Yes, I've played modded maps since the 90s so I do understand.
Would I like to have a "complete" game with mod tools? Of course! Will it happen now that consoles drive the game market, probably not.

Are you sure you're paying for development costs and not advertising?

http://bf3blog.com/2011/04/battlefield-3-launching-this-november-with-a-100-million-ad-campaign/

I don't really recall any 90s game spending $100 million on advertising alone. I would imagine that their entire budgets were significantly smaller than that. I wouldn't even be surprised if the budget to develop BF3 was actually lower than $100 million.
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post #46 of 82
yep how was it reported recently that poor poor EA had 4bil usd income and profit of 50m, while from those 4bil were spent on advertisement over 700m tongue.gif

best
revro
post #47 of 82
Oh hell yeah commander mode is back!
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post #48 of 82
Sorry to say, as a long time BF fan, I won't be buying this unless MP has commanders. BF3 was a change of pace, and it was good, but I want the commander position back as I want more tactical gameplay.

Additionally, I want more level designs like we saw in BC2. BC2 was just insanely epic, even with the SMAW nubs running around thinking they were worth a damn, meanwhile I was knifing 9 guys in a row and dropping out of helos to C4 other helos and tanks.
post #49 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by l No l FeaR l View Post

The game is still several months away from release and DLC is already being worked on but yet you're saying that they aren't doing it alongside the base game? Wut?wth.gif

DLC is already being announced, planned, designed. A separate, small map designing team is probably going to be working on the DLC a bit before launch, but not yet.
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post #50 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post

Sorry to say, as a long time BF fan, I won't be buying this unless MP has commanders. BF3 was a change of pace, and it was good, but I want the commander position back as I want more tactical gameplay.

Additionally, I want more level designs like we saw in BC2. BC2 was just insanely epic, even with the SMAW nubs running around thinking they were worth a damn, meanwhile I was knifing 9 guys in a row and dropping out of helos to C4 other helos and tanks.

^this

BF3 is my favorite game atm but could have been so much better if it had been the true successor to BF2.

level designs in BF2 were even better than BC2. Check out the SF map Warlord, by far one of the best battlefield maps ever. That is what BF4 needs, not some stupid single player campaign (yawn, will never play it). REAL commander with team assets, etc or I will pass on callofdutyfield4
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