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The No Steam Game Selling rule... - Page 4

Poll Results: Sell keys on OCN?

 
  • 100% (2)
    Yes, we should be able to
  • 0% (0)
    No, it will cause too many headaches
2 Total Votes  
post #31 of 53
Quote:
The site is not reliable for bad transactions, soooo what is the big deal? The majority that sell things frequently have enough reputation that I would think this wouldn't be a problem. Is there a petition or a suggestion board or SOMETHING that I can suggest for the site and it's TOS?
http://www.overclock.net/f/23/suggestions

Just to let you know this rule has been in place for more than 3 years and has been argued back and forth many times

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post #32 of 53
Most sites I know with a for sale section won't let you sell these games unless you bundle it with the hardware they came with. Personally, I have no issue with people selling them as long as they do it at 50% off retail or less.
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post #33 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitemarks and bloodstains View Post

Again refer to the the ToS
http://www.overclock.net/a/terms-of-service

 

I don't see the point in citing the TOS here in particular when it goes against the entire marketplace section, which allows members to profit from each other.

 

The real issue is the hierarchy not wanting to deal with the hassle of scams due to no physical evidence of receipt and also any deadlines of usage that may occur. I see the proposal of having a staff member as a middle man but in reality that just sounds like too much work.

 

Better off just using eBay if they allow you to.

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post #34 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshield View Post

I don't see the point in citing the TOS here in particular when it goes against the entire marketplace section, which allows members to profit from each other.

The real issue is the hierarchy not wanting to deal with the hassle of scams due to no physical evidence of receipt and also any deadlines of usage that may occur. I see the proposal of having a staff member as a middle man but in reality that just sounds like too much work.

Better off just using eBay if they allow you to.

Actually we don't allow members to profit off each other in the MP either, at least not insofar as we 'know' that it is happening. We allow people to sell things for UP TO the amount that they paid for an item. We let people recoup what they've already spend, IOW, but not 'profit'.

If someone posts that they just bought a bunch of CPU's from Microcenter for 150 that normally go for 250, and they're selling them for 200, we shut down that thread or force them to offer the CPU's for 150, no more. Even if it's not mentioned what the person paid, if we discover there was recently a big sale somewhere on a given part that someone is selling >1 of, we may require PoP from the poster to show they aren't profiting.

So that's what we mean by 'you're not allowed to profit'.

Getting games essentially for free as part of a bundle, then selling them, goes against this principle.

Furthermore, you're right about the 'hassle' factor, as B&B mentioned above. The reality of the situation in the MP is that we SAY it's entirely 'at your own risk', but this is because we absolutely cannot ever promise to 'make someone whole' if they've been scammed in the MP.

But ask anyone who's ever come to OCN staff with a complaint that they've been scammed in our MP, and you'll discover that we take that stuff very seriously, and we actually will do whatever we can as staff to help.

Some of us (B&B in particular) have spent countless hours trying to 'get to the bottom of things' and help the person out who got jacked. But w/o 'proof' (things like tracking numbers) of some physical thing changing hands, 'helping out' becomes much more complicated redface.gif
    
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post #35 of 53
Still what about steam inventory trades?
    
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post #36 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

Getting games essentially for free as part of a bundle, then selling them, goes against this principle.

 

Well the games weren't free though were they? You could "technically" argue that the graphics card was simply reduced in price. biggrin.gif

 

A swap isn't necessarily profiting a single entity either if it's a fair straight trade for both parties.

 

A freebie is one person profiting off of someone elses generosity.

 

There's loopholes in the system, regarding profiteering, in my opinion.

 

I stand by OCN in regards to trying to keep it clean though. It is a lot of hassle to deal with software keys, but as stated, it's at the users risk entirely.

 

Has it ever been trialed before on OCN? If not would OCN not actually consider a trial for a month or so to see how it would work out?

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post #37 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitemarks and bloodstains View Post

First of all you may not profit for your membership so selling or trading games you got for free would violate the ToS.

While the marketplace is at your own risk for all transactions there are simply more problems with digital items that we are not comfortable with.

2 scenarios
Member A sells a key to member B
Member A activates it before sending it or even before the sale
Member B has no proof that they did not activate the key

So Member A has the money and the key

Member A sells a key to member B
Member B states the key does not work and member A refunds
Member B activates the key

So Member B has the money and the key.

There is simply no way to verify to keys have not been used by the seller prior to sale/the buyer prior to a refund.

Those scenarios describe PayPal to a T.
I hope none of your forum members and Vendors are allowed to use PayPal on this site as well.
The TOS is a dangerous sword that can cut in any direction.
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post #38 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

Actually we don't allow members to profit off each other in the MP either, at least not insofar as we 'know' that it is happening. We allow people to sell things for UP TO the amount that they paid for an item. We let people recoup what they've already spend, IOW, but not 'profit'.

If someone posts that they just bought a bunch of CPU's from Microcenter for 150 that normally go for 250, and they're selling them for 200, we shut down that thread or force them to offer the CPU's for 150, no more. Even if it's not mentioned what the person paid, if we discover there was recently a big sale somewhere on a given part that someone is selling >1 of, we may require PoP from the poster to show they aren't profiting.

So that's what we mean by 'you're not allowed to profit'.

Getting games essentially for free as part of a bundle, then selling them, goes against this principle.

Furthermore, you're right about the 'hassle' factor, as B&B mentioned above. The reality of the situation in the MP is that we SAY it's entirely 'at your own risk', but this is because we absolutely cannot ever promise to 'make someone whole' if they've been scammed in the MP.

But ask anyone who's ever come to OCN staff with a complaint that they've been scammed in our MP, and you'll discover that we take that stuff very seriously, and we actually will do whatever we can as staff to help.

Some of us (B&B in particular) have spent countless hours trying to 'get to the bottom of things' and help the person out who got jacked. But w/o 'proof' (things like tracking numbers) of some physical thing changing hands, 'helping out' becomes much more complicated redface.gif

I bought a 7870 Myst Edition for $250 that was bundled with 4 games. I can't sell them the games because I bought them with a Video Card? The games are NOT free. I paid a large chunk of change to get the games with the video card. The fact that I can't sell the games at heavily reduced prices to help someone else out, and myself, is ludacris.

What do you care if we "profit" from selling things on here? Obviously there is someone that does in deed want to that item at that price.

The forum profits from ads and whatnot, and I'm sure there are plenty of sponsored stores on this forum that "profit" from the members on here
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post #39 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaivorth View Post

I bought a 7870 Myst Edition for $250 that was bundled with 4 games. I can't sell them the games because I bought them with a Video Card? The games are NOT free. I paid a large chunk of change to get the games with the video card. The fact that I can't sell the games at heavily reduced prices to help someone else out, and myself, is ludacris.

What do you care if we "profit" from selling things on here? Obviously there is someone that does in deed want to that item at that price.

The forum profits from ads and whatnot, and I'm sure there are plenty of sponsored stores on this forum that "profit" from the members on here

No offense, but you're acting like a kid that keeps getting told no by his parents.

You bought that video card at what the video card retails for...less in fact. The games are a BONUS. It's a bonus that you're getting anything with the card. By the way, Ludacris is a rapper/artist. Ludicrous is probably what you meant.

The site runs ads so that it may pay for itself--you know, so you can make a thread like this to complain about it? True irony. The moderators replying to you right now see no profit from this, rather than the profit of being able to help maintain the site.

Go to eBay, Craiglist, or even another forum that doesn't have this rule and sell it. You have been told this is not allowed, and it's not going to change all of a sudden for your one exception because you believed all the hype of 'Buy a Tahiti LE card and sell the games and come out paying less than $200 for a $300 card.'
 
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post #40 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaivorth View Post

I bought a 7870 Myst Edition for $250 that was bundled with 4 games. I can't sell them the games because I bought them with a Video Card? The games are NOT free. I paid a large chunk of change to get the games with the video card. The fact that I can't sell the games at heavily reduced prices to help someone else out, and myself, is ludacris.

What do you care if we "profit" from selling things on here? Obviously there is someone that does in deed want to that item at that price.

The forum profits from ads and whatnot, and I'm sure there are plenty of sponsored stores on this forum that "profit" from the members on here

What do we 'care'? Well, it's our policy, first of all. We're not a place for people to run a 'commercial' type of outfit, i.e. OCN is not where people come and 'set up shop' like ebay or etsi or something like that. We're an internet forum who happens to offer the MP as a service to our membership, primarily so they can sell their used PC-related goods to recoup a PORTION of what they spent on the item. And we offer this service FOR FREE, unlike every other site in the WORLD that allows people to set up shop in order to PROFIT from their sales.

I suspect the underlying reason for the 'no profiting' rule probably has something to do with taxes, or some other legal liabilities that become involved when you're allowing people to sell things at a profit, and the ownership has decided that they don't WANT ... whatever liabilities become involved when you're that kind of outfit.

The problem with the bundled games is that we have no way of 'deciding' what is 'your cost', and therefore, we cannot calculate 'what sale price would constitute a profit'? No matter $ per game we might decide, an easy argument can be made that this price is 'higher than it should be', unless that price is $0.

Bottom-line, we have our rules about this sort of thing, and they're not going to change, as they've been discussed/decided upon long ago. If you want to sell your bundled games, you're going to have to do so elsewhere, and that place is going to charge you a fee for the privilege.

Here on OCN, we charge no fee, and that's basically the 'trade-off' you make in order to be allowed to sell things with no overhead. This is only available as a service to our dedicated members (i.e. >35 rep) because you're NOT profiting. That's the deal: take it, or leave it thumb.gif
    
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