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post #31 of 169
And the OEMs also do indirect advertising for Intel. I don't think Dell has a single laptop with an APU, and they have their own ads, which have Intel's logo in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkuatic View Post

Where exactly do they have bad marketing? There isn't anything to market when the competitors are simply outperforming. A good commercial or ad isn't sway the market in it's favor.

http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-A53SD-TS71-750GB-NVIDIA-Laptop/dp/B0072VQHM0

Two dummkopfs bought a fancy i7 laptop, with a GT 610m that has a weaker performance than a HD4000, at $1300. And one of them even said it was great for gaming.

Tell me again that performance is always better than advertising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkuatic View Post

Where are these advertisements that are potent enough to compel consumers towards one or the other? In a world with only 2 main competitor for processors you'll know both or none.

On Facebook, a friend of mine asked what laptops he should get for college.

First response: "Not a Mac"

One of the responses: "An i3/i5/i7 that is at least 2 GHz"

Another response: "A Mac because it doesn't get viruses"


My sister talked to me about the new upcoming Mac laptops with Haswell and seemed excited about the better battery life. As soon as I brought up the Richland APUs, I immediately noticed her losing attention. It didn't take long for her to walk off from me while I was still talking.
Edited by A Bad Day - 5/20/13 at 9:19pm
post #32 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoobs View Post

...please. maybe if they had something decent that nvidia wanted, they could trade technologies, and then they could make cards with cuda. Then their cards would fold better...

...or maybe I just put more emphasis on creating a good product than convincing the masses they want the product, and I am insane.

Core 17 update, video, and reddit live Q&A
With the shift to OpenCL the 7970 is Folding at 91% of Titan's performance for a third of the price. That's damn impressive in my book.
     
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post #33 of 169
Hopefully he's competent. No offense, but I blame a lot of AMD's troubles on how they handle their marketing.
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post #34 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkuatic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Thats why you advertize.

People buy what they are familiar with. They know Intel due to advertisements. They do not know AMD.

Where are these advertisements that are potent enough to compel consumers towards one or the other? In a world with only 2 main competitor for processors you'll know both or none.

... TV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

And the OEMs also do indirect advertising for Intel. I don't think Dell has a single laptop with an APU, and they have their own ads, which have Intel's logo in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkuatic View Post

Where exactly do they have bad marketing? There isn't anything to market when the competitors are simply outperforming. A good commercial or ad isn't sway the market in it's favor.

http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-A53SD-TS71-750GB-NVIDIA-Laptop/dp/B0072VQHM0

Two dummkopfs bought a fancy i7 laptop, with a GT 610m that has a weaker performance than a HD4000, at $1300. And one of them even said it was great for gaming.

Tell me again that performance is always better than advertising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkuatic View Post

Where are these advertisements that are potent enough to compel consumers towards one or the other? In a world with only 2 main competitor for processors you'll know both or none.

On Facebook, a friend of mine asked what laptops he should get for college.

First response: "Not a Mac"

One of the responses: "An i3/i5/i7 that is at least 2 GHz"

Another response: "A Mac because it doesn't get viruses"


My sister talked to me about the new upcoming Mac laptops with Haswell and seemed excited about the better battery life. As soon as I brought up the Richland APUs, I immediately noticed her losing attention. It didn't take long for her to walk off from me while I was still talking.

Exactly, great to see more people who get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assimilator87 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoobs View Post

...please. maybe if they had something decent that nvidia wanted, they could trade technologies, and then they could make cards with cuda. Then their cards would fold better...

...or maybe I just put more emphasis on creating a good product than convincing the masses they want the product, and I am insane.

Core 17 update, video, and reddit live Q&A
With the shift to OpenCL the 7970 is Folding at 91% of Titan's performance for a third of the price. That's damn impressive in my book.

There's that too. I laughed so hard the day I heard about a 7970 beating up a 680 in folding. I couldn't believe my ears.

I knew that AMD has bucket loads of OpenCL performance, but folding was always a CUDA/nVidia thing. tongue.gif

Oh, right, AutoDesk and Adobe are adding/moving to OpenCL as well. Less and less reason to go CUDA, why should AMD care?
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post #35 of 169
In the science/research field, it's common to use software between 5-20 years.

I recall visiting a rather well funded lab with a certain multi-million dollar equipment, hooked up to a Windows NT 4.0 computer because the equipment manufacturer never released an updated driver. Release one driver, push out a new equipment model, and repeat.

I also learned that they were using some FORTRAN-based software that could only be scaled up to a certain amount of cores, and couldn't run on the GPUs. Again, they didn't have the funding for new software.


Now in other places where they modernized, CUDA is quite a popular programming language in the science/research field because Nividia was so persistent in pushing CUDA onto them. AMD made the mistake of being laid back during the mid-late 2000s.
post #36 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

And the OEMs also do indirect advertising for Intel. I don't think Dell has a single laptop with an APU, and they have their own ads, which have Intel's logo in it.
http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-A53SD-TS71-750GB-NVIDIA-Laptop/dp/B0072VQHM0

Two dummkopfs bought a fancy i7 laptop, with a GT 610m that has a weaker performance than a HD4000, at $1300. And one of them even said it was great for gaming.

Tell me again that performance is always better than advertising.
On Facebook, a friend of mine asked what laptops he should get for college.

First response: "Not a Mac"

One of the responses: "An i3/i5/i7 that is at least 2 GHz"

Another response: "A Mac because it doesn't get viruses"


My sister talked to me about the new upcoming Mac laptops with Haswell and seemed excited about the better battery life. As soon as I brought up the Richland APUs, I immediately noticed her losing attention. It didn't take long for her to walk off from me while I was still talking.

OEM's have contracts with chip makers and Dell's main provider is Intel. HP has majority of their sub $800 lineup as mainly AMD. Both HP's intel and AMD lineup have the usual "incredible processor" tag.

I don't know what dummkopfs are but I'll assume they're not very educated. However neither of them said it was "great" for gaming, one just said it "plays all my games well, tho I can't run everything." Hd4000 is not offered on 2nd gen processors therefore the gt610 was thrown in to accommodate, also try playing games at 1366x768 with a gt 610 and an i7;at these low resolution it's more CPU bound. This is not necessarily advertisement intel paid for.

As for the responses I don't see a relevance. I've stated previously that majority of these so called advertisements are through word of mouth generally spread from those that are self-proclaimed "tech guy" of the family or of friends. Where do they get these assumptions from? Certainly not by seeing more banner ads of one manufacturer than the other on the review sites they may frequent.
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post #37 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Thats why you advertize.

People buy what they are familiar with. They know Intel due to advertisements. They do not know AMD.

He is absolutely right and I know it for a fact. My Capstone class required to graduate ~2 years ago was a Management class where we had to pick a company and do a presentation + report on various aspects of the company and their future etc as a group. One of those groups had Intel... It was also highly encouraged at the end of the presentation to participate in open questions/discussions...

People in that class, besides the 3-4 IT undergrads (myself included), mostly didn't even know what AMD was. These people openly stated they buy things because it says Intel Inside on it. They were saying how if Intel gets into phones they should put Intel Inside all over them because it helps them sell...

Don't say Intel doesn't market their products. AMD doesn't market their products effectively considering most average people hardly know what AMD is.

Also something I found hilarious was a few Apple sheep in that class who openly admitted to trying to buy everything Apple and waiting in the crazy launch lines for products biggrin.gif
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post #38 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkuatic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

And the OEMs also do indirect advertising for Intel. I don't think Dell has a single laptop with an APU, and they have their own ads, which have Intel's logo in it.
http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-A53SD-TS71-750GB-NVIDIA-Laptop/dp/B0072VQHM0

Two dummkopfs bought a fancy i7 laptop, with a GT 610m that has a weaker performance than a HD4000, at $1300. And one of them even said it was great for gaming.

Tell me again that performance is always better than advertising.
On Facebook, a friend of mine asked what laptops he should get for college.

First response: "Not a Mac"

One of the responses: "An i3/i5/i7 that is at least 2 GHz"

Another response: "A Mac because it doesn't get viruses"


My sister talked to me about the new upcoming Mac laptops with Haswell and seemed excited about the better battery life. As soon as I brought up the Richland APUs, I immediately noticed her losing attention. It didn't take long for her to walk off from me while I was still talking.

OEM's have contracts with chip makers and Dell's main provider is Intel. HP has majority of their sub $800 lineup as mainly AMD. Both HP's intel and AMD lineup have the usual "incredible processor" tag.

I don't know what dummkopfs are but I'll assume they're not very educated. However neither of them said it was "great" for gaming, one just said it "plays all my games well, tho I can't run everything." Hd4000 is not offered on 2nd gen processors therefore the gt610 was thrown in to accommodate, also try playing games at 1366x768 with a gt 610 and an i7;at these low resolution it's more CPU bound. This is not necessarily advertisement intel paid for.

As for the responses I don't see a relevance. I've stated previously that majority of these so called advertisements are through word of mouth generally spread from those that are self-proclaimed "tech guy" of the family or of friends. Where do they get these assumptions from? Certainly not by seeing more banner ads of one manufacturer than the other on the review sites they may frequent.

Obviously you have zero idea whatsoever who advertizing targets...

Seriously, how much real-world experience talking to non-tech people do you have? As one of those Resident/Family tech guys, I can tell you, all anyone asks for is Intel. They'll get AMD if I push for it, but the response is "What's that?" and I have to tell them that for what they want, it'll be better/cheaper/whatever. Sometimes they still push for Intel anyway, because it's all they know, and they'd feel better that way.

Do not underestimate the power of advertizing. Do not underestimate the people who listen to it. Do not overestimate the local tech's ability to educate.
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post #39 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

... TV.
Exactly, great to see more people who get it.
There's that too. I laughed so hard the day I heard about a 7970 beating up a 680 in folding. I couldn't believe my ears.

I knew that AMD has bucket loads of OpenCL performance, but folding was always a CUDA/nVidia thing. tongue.gif

Oh, right, AutoDesk and Adobe are adding/moving to OpenCL as well. Less and less reason to go CUDA, why should AMD care?

Go into a random retail store and ask random customers why they went with intel. See how many of them got it from a commercial they saw on TV. IIRC the last intel commercial I saw was 3 years ago.

If you've worked retail, you'll understand that customers will ask the associate to compare which is better, and assuming the associate is competent they'll lay down the facts and that has nothing to do with advertisement.

Back in 2006 AMD was outpacing intel and you'd hear of them as much if not more on the web, now it's the opposite. You have more favoritism towards the winning competitor because there is something to brag about, not so much for an underdog.
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post #40 of 169
Back in 2010 when I wanted to build my own desktop rig with my own money, I selected an AMD CPU and a GPU.

One does not simply attempt to tell a parent that he's wrong about Intel+Nividia=Win. He then went ahead and bought me a laptop with a weak i7 720qm (1.6 GHz quad) that I can't use for college anyways because of its weight. Then he bought my sister a heavy laptop (5.5 lb 15", doesn't even have a dedicated GPU) for college, and still doesn't understand why she demands a lighter laptop since she carry around 20 pounds of books every day.
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