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Debian GNU/Hurd 2013 image released - Page 4

post #31 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by adridu59 View Post

Yea I know about Stallman but I thought since Linux Kernel is FOSS already...

Mostly, yes. But Richard Stallman takes FOSS to a whole new level. What you thought was FOSS, he could find a way to say otherwise.

Licensing, Code, Drivers and everything has to be FOSS friendly for RIchard Stallman, of which Linux has a few areas where that isn't 100%. Even if it means losing core functionality of a machine without said code. And all these are increasing in numbers in the recent years, it'll only be a matter of time before Stallman says good bye to Linux because of it.
Edited by Shrak - 5/26/13 at 2:18pm
post #32 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

Its just a kernel... Which has little too do with shells or display system. You can run x on windows even to a limited amount. The kernel really doesn't determine if it's a GUI/CLI OS

In all fairness, the kernel has everything to do with the display system. If the support for the display system isn't in kernel, the software won't build or run. Meaning you don't have a graphical desktop (no GUI). Last time I checked, it was very basic in what it supported. It seems as if they have XFCE running, just to what extent? Also, considering it's an experimental kernel you don't know how programs are going to build against it's subsystems. Which if you want a GUI, it has to play nice with OGL (example). If OGL "works" but not 100%, the programs could very well reflect that. Causing it to either build and crash, or not to build at all.

The kernel is very much related to a GUI.

Err- i realize that is hw support mostly, which is the main issue. However they still need to get the kernel to com with other api stuff. Sorry cooking, stuff is the best i got atm.

sure, but all but the most completely obsolete or single task kernels from the mid 90s onwards support some display server. As for things compiling, that's related to the kernel in a more round about way- the kernel has to be stable and have a compiler (such as gcc) but the sub-systems directly supporting something like x are very basic at the kernel level.
post #33 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by adridu59 View Post

Yea I know about Stallman but I thought since Linux Kernel is FOSS already...

I think a bit of it is the micro kernevslmonolithic Karnak.sorry if that doesn't make since. I'm Bennett's
post #34 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

I think a bit of it is the micro kernevslmonolithic Karnak.sorry if that doesn't make since. I'm Bennett's
huh? wth.gif

It's like your post went from "intelligible" to "it seems I'm having a stroke".
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post #35 of 49
Micro Kernel vs. Monolithic Kernel

Best I can make out from it tongue.gif
post #36 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by adridu59 View Post

Main question: why Hurd when there's Linux?
Why run linux when there's minix? or windows? or aros? or reactos? (Open/Pure)Darwin? QNX? Plan9 (The OS!)? BSD?
Each of these systems can support POSIX with supplementation, so each of these systems ... some only to an extent can run the GNU userland. Each of the kernels, or OS handle the hardware in a different fashion, each with pros and cons.

So to answer your question, why run Hurd? Because you want to!
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post #37 of 49
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Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

sure, but all but the most completely obsolete or single task kernels from the mid 90s onwards support some display server. As for things compiling, that's related to the kernel in a more round about way- the kernel has to be stable and have a compiler (such as gcc) but the sub-systems directly supporting something like x are very basic at the kernel level.

Right but this is a kernel from scratch so to speak. They are adding things on as we speak. USB support is still not fully functional, so do you think the API is even production ready (for linux). You have to keep those things in mind when dealing with a project on this level.
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post #38 of 49
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Originally Posted by stumped View Post

huh? wth.gif

It's like your post went from "intelligible" to "it seems I'm having a stroke".
Sorry, was drunk posting redface.gif
post #39 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

sure, but all but the most completely obsolete or single task kernels from the mid 90s onwards support some display server. As for things compiling, that's related to the kernel in a more round about way- the kernel has to be stable and have a compiler (such as gcc) but the sub-systems directly supporting something like x are very basic at the kernel level.

Right but this is a kernel from scratch so to speak. They are adding things on as we speak. USB support is still not fully functional, so do you think the API is even production ready (for linux). You have to keep those things in mind when dealing with a project on this level.

it's over 20 years old! support for usb, sata etc. is a matter of age, but when x is even older then it I don't know how you could have thought it was CLI only. Hurd pre-dates Linux (even if it never got stable)
post #40 of 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchtaydev View Post

Why run linux when there's minix? or windows? or aros? or reactos? (Open/Pure)Darwin? QNX? Plan9 (The OS!)? BSD?
Each of these systems can support POSIX with supplementation, so each of these systems ... some only to an extent can run the GNU userland. Each of the kernels, or OS handle the hardware in a different fashion, each with pros and cons.

So to answer your question, why run Hurd? Because you want to!
You listed off some pretty awesome examples there: Plan 9 (despite being the successor of UNIX) isn't POSIX. AROS is based on AmigaOS - which isn't POSIX. Windows is only POSIX if you install the likes of cygwin - so definitely not natively POSIX compliant, and ReactOS is a Windows clone so also not POSIX. In fact more of your examples weren't POSIX compliant than those that were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Right but this is a kernel from scratch so to speak. They are adding things on as we speak. USB support is still not fully functional, so do you think the API is even production ready (for linux). You have to keep those things in mind when dealing with a project on this level.
It's not so much about what's missing, but more about what supports that Linux doesn't do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd#Unix_extensions
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

it's over 20 years old! support for usb, sata etc. is a matter of age, but when x is even older then it I don't know how you could have thought it was CLI only. Hurd pre-dates Linux (even if it never got stable)
Hurd is just a kernel - and one that has been ported to so many different micro-kernels (with micro-kernels you can have kernels running inside kernels - it's all very complicated) and hacked about so much that it's ages is a pretty meaningless measurement for performance. Plus the CLI / GUI arguments is about userland anyway - in fact Hurd shares the same userland as Linux does.
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