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[Anand] The Xbox One: Hardware Analysis & Comparison to PlayStation 4 - Page 19

post #181 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullwipe View Post

GPU computation is great, but it going to take awhile for developers to learn to really utilize it. Just as with previous console generations, there's going to be a learning curve associated with exploiting new features and concepts in order to maximize their use of the available graphical and computational power. If it's anything like the last generation, they'll hit their stride about the same time as the next generation of desktop CPU and GPU's hit the market.

While I have no doubt that consoles will have much better capabilities than the last generation, the fact remains that their static hardware will place them even farther behind the curve within a year or two. By comparison, the PS3 and 360 were more powerful than this generation when compared to existing PC specs.

They used non x86 CPUs, and the PS3 took it even further with its odd 1 main core and 7 auxiliary core design. That's a fairly steep learning curve.

For the Xbox One and PS4, since they're x86, it won't take as long for the developers to learn. The only hard part would be GPU computing, but they don't need special modifications to the C++ programming (except for specifying which threads should go to the CPU and GPU).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePath View Post

2- i3 3217U beats quad core kabini @1.5Ghz in every multi-threaded benchmark
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/kabini-a4-5000-review,3518.html

The PS4 CPU has higher 1.6GHz clock speed but it won't make much difference over 1.5Ghz model.

The i3 is in a completely difference market price range than the A4.

Do you think it'll be fair to bash an i5 3330S because it couldn't match an i5 3750K in raw performance?
Edited by A Bad Day - 5/26/13 at 9:25am
post #182 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

...As people mentioned, they were invested in the console. If I'd just paid for 12 months XBL Gold I'd likely buy a new 360. Hell, I've gone through 3 of the damn things because I already had games, etc.

Besides, you completely ignored my other point: The PS3 has definitely shipped more consoles, but the X360 has sold more...Where are Sony shipping those PS3s to if demand is not ramping up?

I have to agree with this, the only reason a lot of people purchased additional Xbox consoles after a RRoD, is they were invested. My younger brother is on his 3rd 360 after having the RRoD on two previous units, this latest seems to be bug free. People bought the unit, then a dozen games or so, as well as their Live membership. So, they felt the need to replace it in order to keep their library.
    
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post #183 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

I have to agree with this, the only reason a lot of people purchased additional Xbox consoles after a RRoD, is they were invested. My younger brother is on his 3rd 360 after having the RRoD on two previous units, this latest seems to be bug free. People bought the unit, then a dozen games or so, as well as their Live membership. So, they felt the need to replace it in order to keep their library.
Ship =/= sold = more important than shipped
end of story

I don't think I've seen one article for PS3 like this

http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/report-strong-2012-performance-suggests-xbox-360-may-beat-wii-overall/

butbutbut they shipped more PS3s!!

Butbutbut this buttbutbut rrod butbubut damage control


Like I said, I am living proof people don't just re-buy a console because they're already invested in it.

You might "know" someone who you THINK re-bought the console because they were invested, I BOUGHT a new xbox 360 because it was superior to the ps3 and wii for what I wanted out of console. (and I already owned a PS3+Wii)
post #184 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

They used non x86 CPUs, and the PS3 took it even further with its odd 1 main core and 7 auxiliary core design. That's a fairly steep learning curve.

For the Xbox One and PS4, since they're x86, it won't take as long for the developers to learn. The only hard part would be GPU computing, but they don't need special modifications to the C++ programming (except for specifying which threads should go to the CPU and GPU).
The i3 is in a completely difference market price range than the A4.

True, but few game engines utilize more than 4 threads, Frostbite 2 being an example of one that will. But lets be honest, the GPU will be the primary bottleneck on these new consoles, not the APU. If they had stuck with 1080P these system would be fantastic, but targeting "4k" resolution on a GPU with a little less power than a GTX 660 (non Ti) is going to limit them to 30 FPS at best, with the equivalent of medium settings. The card comparison is based of the TFLOPS Sony has said their GPU was capable of.

The image below is with two EVGA Superclocked GTX 680s in SLI. Source: http://chipreviews.com/cpu/frostbite-2s-limit-6-core-performance-in-battlefield-3/



So even at 1200p the GPU in the console would be incapable of a constant 60 FPS in an engine that's being replaced in the next 6 months. Maybe not even a constant 30 FPS.
Edited by Skullwipe - 5/26/13 at 11:59am
post #185 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullwipe View Post

True, but few game engines utilize more than 4 threads, Frostbite 2 being an example of one that will. But lets be honest, the GPU will be the primary bottleneck on these new consoles, not the APU. If they had stuck with 1080P these system would be fantastic, but targeting "4k" resolution on a GPU with a little less power than a GTX 660 (non Ti) is going to limit them to 30 FPS at best, with the equivalent of medium settings. The card comparison is based of the TFLOPS Sony has said their GPU was capable of.

The image below is with two EVGA Superclocked GTX 680s in SLI. Source: http://chipreviews.com/cpu/frostbite-2s-limit-6-core-performance-in-battlefield-3/



So even at 1200p the GPU in the console would be incapable of a constant 60 FPS in an engine that's being replaced in the next 6 months. Maybe not even a constant 30 FPS.

To be fair, HDMI 1.4 dont do more than 30 fps anyway at 4k resolution bcos of bandwidth restrictions I think. As far as settings go I personally would speculate on "high" settings with that GPU in PS4 just with low or no AA applied. Depends on engine ofc, my standards are somewhat outdated, Metro 2033, Crysis 1 and even unreal and source engines smile.gif With source engine you can do at that reso max everything and ~ 120 fps. But thats ofc rather old engine by now even with all the updates done to it. When you hit high resolutions the amount of memory you have and memory bandwidth tend to get the main bottlenecks. The theoretical peak pixel fill rates are magnitude or two above these constraints usually.

In my opinion one of the usual problems with "high or ultra" settings is that these tend to overdo AA by quite a significant margin. I mean x16 AA is pretty pointless when you are sitting at 70 cm from your 23'' 1080p screen. Perhaps x2 AA would have some point if you have unnaturally good eyesight.
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post #186 of 249
PS4 has 50% more ALU performance and 100% more fillrate then Xbox One..... Fatality blow by Sony...
post #187 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

In my opinion one of the usual problems with "high or ultra" settings is that these tend to overdo AA by quite a significant margin. I mean x16 AA is pretty pointless when you are sitting at 70 cm from your 23'' 1080p screen. Perhaps x2 AA would have some point if you have unnaturally good eyesight.

not just AA.

You can take a 5xxx series card, an overclocked Phenom AMD CPU (fairly mediocre compared with todays top intel beasts) 4gb ram and run most games on high for a good 70% of the settings and turn down some extras then you have a game that generally looks no different but plays at a decent 50-60fps. Simply reducing shadows to medium from high or ultra gives about 15-20fps normally and the only difference you see is a smoother edge but its usually one of those stand and look closely to notice things and the medium setting still doesn't have pixelated edges just slight stepping. Then turn your AA off and motion blur to low / off and you basically can run the game the same as a 7 series without tons of visual difference.

BF3 was a classic example of how in motion Medium looked hardly any different to Ultra (well certainly not OMG stand out change)

I mean who on here puts everything on ultra to get the best graphics and ends up with worse because MLAA / FXAA sucks ?
Edited by Pip Boy - 5/26/13 at 1:07pm
post #188 of 249
the horsepower differnce that is being "CLAIMED" is same as ps3 over 360, and all the fan boys from both sides can say what they want i own both, and the number of games that look better on the ps3 i can count on 1 hand biggrin.gif
post #189 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by leo5111 View Post

the horsepower differnce that is being "CLAIMED" is same as ps3 over 360, and all the fan boys from both sides can say what they want i own both, and the number of games that look better on the ps3 i can count on 1 hand biggrin.gif

No this time, the base of both machines are so similar, it is an obvious difference. Unlike last gen.
post #190 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

not just AA.

You can take a 5xxx series card, an overclocked Phenom AMD CPU (fairly mediocre compared with todays top intel beasts) 4gb ram and run most games on high for a good 70% of the settings and turn down some extras then you have a game that generally looks no different but plays at a decent 50-60fps. Simply reducing shadows to medium from high or ultra gives about 15-20fps normally and the only difference you see is a smoother edge but its usually one of those stand and look closely to notice things and the medium setting still doesn't have pixelated edges just slight stepping. Then turn your AA off and motion blur to low / off and you basically can run the game the same as a 7 series without tons of visual difference.

BF3 was a classic example of how in motion Medium looked hardly any different to Ultra (well certainly not OMG stand out change)

I mean who on here puts everything on ultra to get the best graphics and ends up with worse because MLAA / FXAA sucks ?

wink.gif I was running games a while on a 6770 at 10 megapixels (5400x1920 reso) with 1055T CPU, but a bit more RAM. TBH at that high reso its blatantly inadequate but what I observed was that it was mainly held back by having only 1 GB of vRAM. When you run out of vRAM the performance drops straight off the cliff to ~ 3 fps. When you run out of the processing power then performance degrades a lot more gracefully. With PS 4 having access to total 7 GB of GDDR 5 I do not expect it to have the RAM problem in near future. Now I had 7870 at the same resolution (2 GB of vRAM) which is approx .. uhh .. perhaps max 20% ? stronger than 7850 and I was able to get 40 fps in most games no problems. Granted - I have no tried BF3 as I have refused to install Origin so far - so cant comment on that one. But all it takes is some manual tuning of settings - make sure you fit within your vRAM and dont overdo AA and while you might not get constant 60 fps always you get good enough experience.

As my 7870 is in warranty atm bough myself 7950 now, but found out I lack couple of fittings to complete the loop in the new case so that will have to wait for now. Once I get there then I would be able to comment more what, if any, difference does the vRAM amount does at 1 GB vs 2 GB vs 3 GB at that kind of resolution. Raw performance wise 7950 is roughly equal to OC'd 7870 after all.
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