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[Official] NVIDIA GTX 780 Owner's Club - Page 1544

post #15431 of 24924
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccamRazor View Post


Ed

very sad that you dont want talk me anymore..however,i respect your decision..
post #15432 of 24924
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccamRazor View Post

Not enough info and what mod did you do? Did you run the same preset in Valley? normally its extreme preset but still 39 is too low! After the flash did you reinstall drivers? And what similar system? you mean the same but with stock bios?

(Skyn3t Team)

1.212 voltmod. Same preset in Valley. Now i did reboot my computer. Set the clock at 1215/3121 mhz and scored 69.2 FPS at HD Extreme preset.
Tried somewhat higher, crashed, lowered to 1215/3130 but now i scored like 51 FPS. what the?
I have reinstalled the drivers aswell.
post #15433 of 24924
Got my hands on the Gigabyte GTX 780 GHz Edition GPU - seriously good looking! biggrin.gif

http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4816#ov

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post #15434 of 24924
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

#1) Just because the power is there to use, doesn't mean it's going to use it. No, it's not going to just up & blow the card unless you are pushing it waaayyy too hard for stock air. The truth is that you have pretty high limitations on air that you shouldn't pass, but since the card can only do 1.212 right now it shouldn't be much of an issue as long as it's running max fan speed.

#2) if you spread the tim around you are doing your self a diservice. Just put a rice grain sized dot & plop the cooler on.
Thanks for the advice! I spread it around, i will try the "dot method" instead!
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccamRazor View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Here is some quotes from my posts:

"Unfortunately no air cooler has good contact with VRM area (power inductors, capacitors and mosfets) and the higher the TDP the higher the amperage which leads to higher power dissipation in the VRM´s and thus higher heat, your card outputs at stock a max (+- )130W TDP thats why you see even at 1,3v lower temps at the core and VRM´s! Titans with 1,3v+ can use more than 400W! biggrin.gif
The reference VRM´s can withstand voltages above stock without a sweat, the titans mosfets are rated at high current handling DC-DC 60A with an efficiency of 93%, max temps 125C*, power inductors max ref temps 110C, Capacitors rated 105C!
This (and using waterblocks such as EK that cover the entire VRM area) is why we haven't seen blown up Titans!thumb.gif
But... Dont think that because the components are not bad, it means everything is ok! if you keep upping the voltage there will be a time when the heat transfer will not be enough due to the VRM area heat output and a heat spike will blow the mosfets or the capacitors!
*not exactely 125C , think of it more at 110C due to other factors!"

"6 Phase VRM´s (CORE) 60A each = 360A

DC-DC = I(A) × V(V) = P(W) =» 360A x 1.6v = 576W Theoretical MAX Wattage for the core

Plus 2 Phases for the memory and the rest of the card!

@ 1.40v = 504W
@ 1.45v = 522W "

"Did some testings today and this is for all those inquisitive minds out there wandering on the power draw of our beast cards running GK110!

Bear in mind that my system is in my SIG and the only difference was the CPU@4.8Ghz@1,30v! Using triple monitor 3240 x 1920@120hz SLI TITANS W/ Skyn3t Rev2 bios
and memory at stock 6000mhz!

1306mhz / 1,37v / power draw 124% / load 99% 372W*
1333mhz / 1.37v / power draw 134% / load 99% 402W*
1359mhz / 1.37v / power draw 139% / load 99% 417W*
1385mhz / 1.37v / power draw 145% / load 99% 435W*
1400mhz / 1.39v / power draw 155% / load 99% 465W*
*Power draw just for one card
As you can see voltage alone will not increase power draw until you increase clocks and dynamically load your card, power was being drawn from the wall ranging from 850W - 1250W!"

I hope i made your mind at ease but if not feel free to PM me with more questions! thumb.gif

Cheers

Ed

(Skyn3t Team)

More bed time reading! tongue.gifWarning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
"Please do NOT GO ABOVE 1,212v WITH SOFT VOLT MOD AND LLC DISABLE!
No air cooler has the capacity to dissipate the heat load out of the VRM area when OC with overvoltage! And you cannot know the VRM´s temps, only do an estimate calculation based on your power draw! HEAT KILLS!
Exactly what happens depends on how excess the power is. It may be a sustained cooking. In this case, the MOSFET gets hot enough to literally unsolder itself. Much of the MOSFET heating at high currents is in the leads - which can quite easily unsolder themselves without the MOSFET failing! If the heat is generated in the chip, then it will get hot - but its maximum temperature is usually not silicon-restricted, but restricted by the fabrication. The silicon chip is bonded to the substrate by soft solder and it is quite easy to melt this and have it ooze between the epoxy and the metal of the body, forming solder droplets! Excess heat leads to short circuit! Usually, a MOSFET will fail short first. This is because excessive heat will, by diffusion, mix the dopants enough to create a good conductor instead of the p-n or n-p barriers that were there originally. Often, the gate oxide will be taken into the diffusion, too, causing a short between all three terminals.
Only if the short circuit current after this first mode of failure is high enough to blow the bond wires or the entire transistor, there is an open circuit.
Another forgotten thing is the voltage controller NCP4206 itself! its rated for a maximum operating temperature of 85C and again no way to measure the temperature!

Please guys PLAY SAFE!

ON AIR MAX VOLTAGE: 1.212v + 0.025 (+-) 0.006v = 1.24v(+-)
Keep the fan high and dont let temps go over 70/75C and even this is with a pinch of salt! thumb.gif

And Power Draw debunked:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1393791/official-nvidia-gtx-780-owners-club/14900_100#post_21306517 wink.gif
Thanks for very valuable info, you made my mind more clear...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imprezzion 
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
A little add-on to this.

I finally managed to get my hands on a laser thermometer and ran it through some overlcocks / overvolts.
Temps measured are back-of-PCB and side of component temps. The real temps in the component itself is probably ~10c higher.

All tests done in the real-life situation of Battlefield 4 multiplayer @ Ultra without AA on 1080P with 150% resolution scale (2880x1620 rendering resolution)

Reference GTX780 @ 100% fan and 1202Mhz core @ 1.212v (1.194v load) hits about 57c average on the core and 68c on the VRM's (backside of the PCB).
Same settings @ Auto fanspeed hits about 75c core and 72c VRM's which is actually lower then core temps.

Reference @ 1.212v w/ LLC=0 (1.231v load) on 100% fan hits 61c core and 74c VRM's.
On Auto fanspeed it hits 82c core and 89c VRM's. This is right on the limit.

On 1.300v without LLC so load 1.288v on 100% VRM's are hitting almost 90c on 100% fanspeed.
Didn't dare to run Auto on it.

Now, here it comes:
Gigabyte GTX780 Windforce3X ''Ghz Edition''.
Triple fan cooler with direct contact of the main heatsink on the VRM's. Also uses a custom 8+2 phase VRM.

100% fanspeed at 1202Mhz 1.212v at 1.194v load is about 52c core and 45c VRM's.
Auto fanspeed is about 64c core and 60c VRM's.

100% fanspeed with 1.212v with LLC=0 is 1.238v load hits 57c core and 54c VRM's.
Auto hits 70c core and 68c VRM's.

100 fanspeed on 1.300v (1.288v load) hits about 68c core and 74c VRM's.
Once again, not tested Auto.

So, the 8+2 phase directly cooled VRM from Gigabyte, while getting quite hot, is nowhere near the danger zone yet and 1.30v is perfectly fine to run on air with a Windforce3X Ghz Edition or Rev 2.0 B1 chip as long as you keep fanspeed above 80% load. The coolers not load at all even on 100% being much quiter then the reference at 100%.

What you can clearly see is that increasing voltage greatly increases heat on both core and VRM's and that even the ''450w'' Windforce3X has a hard time cooling it. The heat load from the VRM's is quickly saturating the heatsink at lower fanspeeds as you can feel the left heatsink being considerably hotter then the right one.
Interesting, TBH according to your above mentioned research OCing with 1,30V on air/even reference Air cooler sounds quite safe, when keeping 100% fan and reasonable core temp than it sounds from Skynet's team Warnings Don't go above 1.212V with soft mod and LLC disable on Air!!!
But! still your temps are not clear for me - 75°C when full load on GPU is measured by thermometer? So the real temp sould be 85°C right? Do you know exactly what was showing Afterburner OSD temps compared to thermometer?
75°C real on stock cooler with LLC disable and 1,212V sounds incredible too much to be real.
Edited by PsyenceFiction - 12/10/13 at 4:26am
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post #15435 of 24924
Nah GPU temps are driver measured. Ran MSI AB with it.

My cooler is lapped, has PH-NDC as TIM, I/O shield is cut in half to be fully open and unrestrictive..
This all shaved 10+c off of the load temp. 1.212v with LLC disabled on completely stock card hits 85-90c on Auto. And yes, it does thermal throttle then.

And 1.300v being safe? No. It isn't. With a stock cooler it should be hitting ~100c since the I/O isn't cut and such plus that's really really pushing the limits..

I do however see 1.25-1.26v as safe with 100% fanspeed. I find sky's reccommendation perfect as 1.212v with LLC disabled is 1.231-1.238v load and this is sort of safe even if my measurements are further off then 10c.

Worst case scenario's mate. I mean, my ambients are low (16c), I have some seriously over the top airflow in my case and a modded cooler and I can barely keep it under 100c on 1.30v. And that was without doing LLC mod. With LLC disabled aka 1.325v load the VRM's will go bezerk and will most definatly blow.

Ran a couple of weeks on 1.254v load (1.238v with LLC disabled) and core temps were at about 64-67c in-game depending on ambient and VRM's were probably around 80-85c.

Now, take into consideration s card ike the R9 290X. I know, speaking of AMD in this thread.. but k.
The VRM's on that card at 100% fanspeed barely even touch 60c on 1.41v (1.32v actual load).
Hell, even on Auto (47%) they barely touch 85c on those, for GTX7xx, insane voltages.
AMD did a LOT better job at making sure VRM's stay cool.
Edited by Imprezzion - 12/10/13 at 4:40am
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post #15436 of 24924
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyenceFiction View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Thanks for the advice! I spread it around, i will try the "dot method" instead!
Thanks for very valuable info, you made my mind more clear...
Interesting, TBH according to your above mentioned research OCing with 1,30V on air/even reference Air cooler sounds quite safe, when keeping 100% fan and reasonable core temp than it sounds from Skynet's team Warnings Don't go above 1.212V with soft mod and LLC disable on Air!!!
But! still your temps are not clear for me - 75°C when full load on GPU is measured by thermometer? So the real temp sould be 85°C right? Do you know exactly what was showing Afterburner OSD temps compared to thermometer?
75°C real on stock cooler with LLC disable and 1,212V sounds incredible too much to be real.

I don't think the 780Ti's are capable of anything over 1.212 yet, unless you just picked up a classi.
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post #15437 of 24924
Quote:
Originally Posted by vagenrider View Post

very sad that you dont want talk me anymore..however,i respect your decision..

Nop, you got PM! wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkomg View Post

1.212 voltmod. Same preset in Valley. Now i did reboot my computer. Set the clock at 1215/3121 mhz and scored 69.2 FPS at HD Extreme preset.
Tried somewhat higher, crashed, lowered to 1215/3130 but now i scored like 51 FPS. what the?
I have reinstalled the drivers aswell.

Unstable OC! You need more juice! When you got less fps with (apparently the same clocks) is because your VRM´s went into a "lower logic state" (they were reset so to say) while software shows high P0 state in fact your card is in a P8 state with lower voltage/clocks, sometimes a new modded bios does not make things better, try other revisions, perhaps another might give you better results!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyenceFiction View Post

Thanks for the advice! I spread it around, i will try the "dot method" instead!
Thanks for very valuable info, you made my mind more clear...
Interesting, TBH according to your above mentioned research OCing with 1,30V on air/even reference Air cooler sounds quite safe, when keeping 100% fan and reasonable core temp than it sounds from Skynet's team Warnings Don't go above 1.212V with soft mod and LLC disable on Air!!!
But! still your temps are not clear for me - 75°C when full load on GPU is measured by thermometer? So the real temp should be 85°C right? Do you know exactly what was showing Afterburner OSD temps compared to thermometer?
75°C real on stock cooler with LLC disable and 1,212V sounds incredible too much to be real.

Real temps (Core), voltages and power readings are measured real time by INA3221ANJP onboard chip and by turn read by AB!
VRM´s temperatures cannot be read unless there is a dedicated chip but there isn't one in reference Titan/780 cards even some non-reference do not have it! and its only an estimate as real temperature is really much higher! All measuring we can do is with a IR gun on the back of the PCB and temperatures read cannot be trusted, we take them as a hint!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Imprezzion View Post

Nah GPU temps are driver measured. Ran MSI AB with it.

My cooler is lapped, has PH-NDC as TIM, I/O shield is cut in half to be fully open and unrestrictive..
This all shaved 10+c off of the load temp. 1.212v with LLC disabled on completely stock card hits 85-90c on Auto. And yes, it does thermal throttle then.

And 1.300v being safe? No. It isn't. With a stock cooler it should be hitting ~100c since the I/O isn't cut and such plus that's really really pushing the limits..

I do however see 1.25-1.26v as safe with 100% fanspeed. I find sky's reccommendation perfect as 1.212v with LLC disabled is 1.231-1.238v load and this is sort of safe even if my measurements are further off then 10c.

Worst case scenario's mate. I mean, my ambients are low (16c), I have some seriously over the top airflow in my case and a modded cooler and I can barely keep it under 100c on 1.30v. And that was without doing LLC mod. With LLC disabled aka 1.325v load the VRM's will go bezerk and will most definatly blow.

Ran a couple of weeks on 1.254v load (1.238v with LLC disabled) and core temps were at about 64-67c in-game depending on ambient and VRM's were probably around 80-85c.

Now, take into consideration s card ike the R9 290X. I know, speaking of AMD in this thread.. but k.
The VRM's on that card at 100% fanspeed barely even touch 60c on 1.41v (1.32v actual load).
Hell, even on Auto (47%) they barely touch 85c on those, for GTX7xx, insane voltages.
AMD did a LOT better job at making sure VRM's stay cool.

As i said above, its not driver read its AB reading straight from the chip! after we do the volt mod only AB is able to read further voltages as drivers will report only 1,212V! Other software rely on the drivers to read voltages, not AB!
Your temp reading on the 290X support what i say about back PCB reading be misleading, @guru3D they did thermal imaging with a thermal camera and found that the 290X at stock voltages VRM´s area was around 79.8C, you cannot rely on 290X reading as the AMD ADL API is a mess and i wouldnt be surprised if they were actually cheating into reporting lower temps than real! tongue.gif

Cheers guys!

Ed

(Skyn3t Team)
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post #15438 of 24924
...................................
Edited by swanga - 9/30/15 at 1:34pm
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post #15439 of 24924
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanga View Post

Sorry to hear that. Let us know if you get a B1 revision card!

That's what I'm hoping lol
 
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post #15440 of 24924
Well, looks like EVGA has stock on the new GTX 780Ti Classified cards for $739.

All things considered, $40 more for a 780Ti Classified over the base 780Ti is a GREAT deal.
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