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[PSU] Call of Duty: Ghosts doesn't use a brand new engine after all - Page 18

post #171 of 206
What Activision really need to do is forget about the game engine upgrades completely and instead focus on creating their own in-house anticheat program that works. I can accept a new cod game using the same game engine, but what I accept is wasting $100 on a game that will be full of low life hackers in no time.

VAC is useless and Punkbuster is no better. Activision have made cash hand over fist, well into the billions, and they should put some of that cash back into making sure the future games they release remain hacker free.

Activision needs to do whatever it takes to keep the hackers out, because ppl are sick of wasting their hard earned cash on games that will be over run with hackers.
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post #172 of 206
It doesn't use a new engine after all?

nickcageyoudontsay.jpg
Edited by Sir Beregond - 5/30/13 at 9:25am
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post #173 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Call of Duty fans, the only group of people who consistently prefer their gameplay over their graphics.

As a PC gamer, they are as close to old school as you get, I hope you all realize that about that group.

Almost all engines are maintained this way as well. Treyarch just rebuilt the engine to encompass DX11. That was a huge deal for them and see no reason for them to change it personally.

Why do they need a new engine? People clamoring and snickering hate Call of Duty anyways and or play it regardless. Just whining.

but the gameplay of every COD game feels the same, I gave up buying them after MW2 simply because every game felt like the same one, no matter what they done to the engine

If they were to use a new engine yes we would get better graphics but we will also get a game that feels and looks new
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post #174 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-nefer View Post

What Activision really need to do is forget about the game engine upgrades completely and instead focus on creating their own in-house anticheat program that works. I can accept a new cod game using the same game engine, but what I accept is wasting $100 on a game that will be full of low life hackers in no time.

VAC is useless and Punkbuster is no better. Activision have made cash hand over fist, well into the billions, and they should put some of that cash back into making sure the future games they release remain hacker free.

Activision needs to do whatever it takes to keep the hackers out, because ppl are sick of wasting their hard earned cash on games that will be over run with hackers.

VAC only really works well if they can integrate it into the game well. As with all Anti-Cheat solutions, admins are still something that makes the experience complete. So even if they get a good system up, you'll always have issues. And even then, you will find nice hacks that are classified as 0-Ring hacks. Driver hacks, which exploit the game at the kernel level. You simply cannot compete with that, those will exist for a while.

That gors for PC and console, on the console side only you would have to have MS create a way to do services for game designers. If they do on the new console, it would make things easier. The only downside is, unless they do secure boot on the console (which is a possibility) you have the other issues once mod-chips come out.

Not only that, if hacks can be loaded into game files and the game allows those files to be loaded, regardless of cheat software (more aimed at consoles but texture hacks work this way) then nothing can be done. Modded discs have been showing up on the 360 now for a while. With the ability to play burned games online, on XBL, it creates a serious issue.

Anti-Cheat only goes so far, any automated system is bound to be broken. Especially by those who pay professionals to code the cheat, they are extremely good at it. Those cheats tend to be banned less and exploit parts of the system that are harder to patch. Though on CS:GO I've experienced very few hackers so far, granted I play on moderated servers which makes things very nice. I've been on a few non-VAC protected servers and hackers were prominent. Just the way things go.
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post #175 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Strawberry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Call of Duty fans, the only group of people who consistently prefer their gameplay over their graphics.

As a PC gamer, they are as close to old school as you get, I hope you all realize that about that group.

Almost all engines are maintained this way as well. Treyarch just rebuilt the engine to encompass DX11. That was a huge deal for them and see no reason for them to change it personally.

Why do they need a new engine? People clamoring and snickering hate Call of Duty anyways and or play it regardless. Just whining.

but the gameplay of every COD game feels the same, I gave up buying them after MW2 simply because every game felt like the same one, no matter what they done to the engine

If they were to use a new engine yes we would get better graphics but we will also get a game that feels and looks new

You are absolutely right. The gameplay feels almost identical, while I prefer the feel of Call of Duty 4 myself. If that bothers you, you shouldn't buy the game. My point was, why do people *need* it to change even if they don't like CoD or play it anymore? What is it supposed to change into? The primary focus on CoD since post 4, was moderately good graphics, but stable frame rates and streamlined multiplayer. I personally don't understand why people are against Call of Duty. Like they are offended by a game they don't play, that people who do play find it fun/casual/addictive.

That doesn't change the fact that a lot of people do not grow tired of the gameplay (referencing concurrent players and sales). I personally loved playing the storyline and only moderately played multiplayer. The majority of CoD players get dozens of hours every single iteration from these games. Thats from how the game is now. Why would should they change that?

It is no different than FIFA or Madden. They are for specific people who enjoy that style of game. The comments stand on their own but to me, people love to complain and whine. It is one thing if you think its boring and don't play it, its another thing to tell other people that they should find it boring and stop buying it. People just can't stand being different anymore and liking different things. I personally like Call of Duty. I also like Battlefield 3. I prefer Call of Duty due to BF3's hit detection and net code problems though. Nothing more frustrating than that personally.

In addition to that, DICE, while stumbling here and there, really try and push the envelope. They love to showcase. That is not what Treyarch or IW are known for. They are known for stability and consistency. With new stuff you run the risk of turning people off. BF3 turned a lot of Battlefield players off, whether it was bugs, Battlelog, the CoD XP style Weapon Unlocks, the departure from BF2, or what not.

Change is just that, change. It isn't always good or better, sometimes it is. The fact that people think CoD is bad or boring (with or without playing it) are totally allowed to feel that way. That doesn't mean you are correct or that your opinion is any better than a fan of the series who loves it and would hate to see it change.

Edit:
@Mushroom et others:
Totally understand that the gameplay is unrealistic and I definitely feel a realistic weapon overhaul for Call of Duty would be amazing, one shouldn't have the expectation of a video game to be absolutely realistic, let alone CoD is known for being non-realistic.
Edited by RagingCain - 5/30/13 at 12:57pm
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post #176 of 206
I agree that it doesn't need to be absolutely realistic. It's just that, even in an unrealistic setting game mechanics should be balanced. That still falls under the engine, even if they don't change the graphics making the game balanced in terms of play would greatly expand their experience. You can still make a game user friendly (noob friendly) and be balanced for more experienced players.

Don't even mind the idea of kill streaks and the such, game modes can be made to take that out. The thing is, you don't see weapons really balanced based on their "rank". Most of the weapons aren't even ranked properly, which makes the whole thing confusing. Even a new player can look at the weapon stats, use the gun, and realize that they aren't at all accurate. If they aren't accurate, what's the point? You should be able to use those stats to decide which gun you want, how it handles, stuff like that. While it might be better in BO, that's 2 out of 6 games under the "new" COD franchise (released). That's a pretty poor record. Many times I've tried using those stats, to later find out they are extremely unrealistic of how the guns actually work.

On top of that, certain aspects of the game are completely broken. Stand to prone is the best example, being able to shoot while doing such an act. Sure it's a game but balancing that (delay) wouldn't harm anything. Their are other aspects as well but what I end up talking about aren't even "major" changes. Yeah, I'd like to see better graphics and a new engine but I'll at least be humble if people bring up good points.

What I'm asking is, they should focus on expanding the ideas they already started. Such as a better cover system, where penetration is done properly. Movement being aptly done instead of what feels like a 90s take. It isn't hard and wouldn't break the general mechanics of the game, just take away some of the terrible cheap mechanics.
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post #177 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

I agree that it doesn't need to be absolutely realistic. It's just that, even in an unrealistic setting game mechanics should be balanced. That still falls under the engine, even if they don't change the graphics making the game balanced in terms of play would greatly expand their experience. You can still make a game user friendly (noob friendly) and be balanced for more experienced players.

Don't even mind the idea of kill streaks and the such, game modes can be made to take that out. The thing is, you don't see weapons really balanced based on their "rank". Most of the weapons aren't even ranked properly, which makes the whole thing confusing. Even a new player can look at the weapon stats, use the gun, and realize that they aren't at all accurate. If they aren't accurate, what's the point? You should be able to use those stats to decide which gun you want, how it handles, stuff like that. While it might be better in BO, that's 2 out of 6 games under the "new" COD franchise (released). That's a pretty poor record. Many times I've tried using those stats, to later find out they are extremely unrealistic of how the guns actually work.

On top of that, certain aspects of the game are completely broken. Stand to prone is the best example, being able to shoot while doing such an act. Sure it's a game but balancing that (delay) wouldn't harm anything. Their are other aspects as well but what I end up talking about aren't even "major" changes. Yeah, I'd like to see better graphics and a new engine but I'll at least be humble if people bring up good points.

What I'm asking is, they should focus on expanding the ideas they already started. Such as a better cover system, where penetration is done properly. Movement being aptly done instead of what feels like a 90s take. It isn't hard and wouldn't break the general mechanics of the game, just take away some of the terrible cheap mechanics.

I generally play, when I do, CoD on Hardcore. Nearly everything is a one shot, one kill. As far as the accuracy and mobility concerns arise, wouldn't it sound like you would rather play ARMA II (soon III) or perhaps more closely BF3? I assume you meant accuracy and as in representation, not just down the sights. You have stated that they have failed 4 / 6 times, but thats if you expecting those features. If you were expecting a familiar fast paced shooter with moderately good graphics, wouldn't that have been 6 / 6 for success?

The evolution of this game though is from a different approach. The primary reason we don't see changes is that their focus has been the response of the game. That has been their sales angle. I honestly think there will be a push for more accuracy in the coming CoD series. The behind the scenes coding has all but changed (had to for the DX11 conversion) under BO2 and they won't be doing jawdropping graphics while aiming for that framerate and input precision. I see, logically, code optimizations, and backend physics improvements are really all they can do with the above mentality the focus. The engine maybe dated by comparison to more intense engines, but my experience has been a great deal more stable than BF3 or Crysis series. I can't remember clearly 100%, I am sure it has though, I don't think it has ever crashed to desktop for me (we are talking about the series). I can't say that about any other title I can think of, let alone series.

There are perfectly valid points you bring up but I could apply similar logic to World of Warcraft. If I disliked its representation of fantasy characters with its cartoonish engine or that I don't like that you have to play online etc. While there is nothing wrong with me and my opinion, you would have to stop and ask me, then why are you playing the darn game? Your questions are less "extreme" than that of course, but my response would be, why do you expect this of Call of Duty? Why must CoD change to those standards (when it has never promised them or advocating the series in that direction)?

I understand a desire you have for more realism though as I would love that in addition to tighter hitboxes. I think if CoD would take itself more serious and pushed uncanny realistic combat, it would be the end all of FPS. I just know thats not the direction they have stated they are going for so I don't get upset with it and the occasional purchase I choose for.

Others tired of hearing about CoD, hoping that it dies out makes no sense to me whatsoever. How does it affect you (if you choose not play it or dislike it) that other people do get to enjoy it?

I have a hunch that most people want the solid framerate, high precision user input capture, and stability for hours of gaming, but have the BF4 level of graphics, proper projectile physics, 99.99% correct player side to server side hit detection, hackproof, and highly versatile netcode design for large player battles.

Reality kicks in and we can basically only have 3 of those things (according to whats available on markets right now).

That right there is the unicorn of first person shooters, and while I would love to ride that unicorn, I will happily play CoD till then and not take myself too serious at all.
Edited by RagingCain - 5/30/13 at 3:25pm
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post #178 of 206
You didn't quite get what I was saying. I don't really hate spread that much in the game, it's not the best but I've seen worse and I've seen better. That is tolerable. Recoil could be done better, most definitely. As well as some of the other mechanics. I have never said they need a major overhaul either, most big online games don't do that anyways. Minor tweaks.

Take pistols for example, the .44 Magnum in MW3 does 49 damage. Ok, that's decent. Now take the Five Seven, it does 36 damage. With how damage is done, it still takes 3 shots for both pistols at close range. Despite the fact that one gun is a .44 round and the other is a .224 round. What!? Why not up the .44 1dmg, make it 2 shot kill as it's an obviously larger gun. It should be more powerful, better HS multiplier, longer range. I'll agree to it's accuracy being worse but those are not even close to moderately realistic. You could tighten those up a lot, still be hugely unrealistic in the game, and fix weapon balance.

What I'm talking about is, the gun stats are completely unbalanced. The only gun that does more damage than the rest ranged, it's the Dessert Eagle. Everything else, EVERYTHING does 17dmg ranged. Really? Your telling me that a .224/.44/.45/ect... all do the same damage ranged? Then what is the point to those guns at all? Why have multiple guns that do the same damage, or even if they don't, take the same amount of shots to kill with the exception of head shots.

So what you are saying is, that's balanced? Even if you don't accurately portray those pistols, you aren't even giving an unrealistic weapon balance. There is no weapon balance for those mechanics. That's just gun stats, not even true engine mechanics. I've already pointed out a huge broken aspect of the weapon setup without getting into more stuff, THATS why COD isn't nearly as competitive as it should be. The DE at close range, doing it's "max" damage is still a 3 shot weapon. We are firing a .50 round, granted a handgun but how the heck does that mount up to a .224 caliber weapon doing 36 damage? Because they intentionally put weapon damages just below the threshold as to keep people from abusing high powered pistols.

Again, either it's really shoddy development or it's them not wanting to make any balance in the game. Which as a gamer, even if I wanted a casual game, weapons should have distinctive qualities as to give the person an incentive as to why they want to use that gun. Otherwise, as far as pistols go, I might as well always use the Five Seven just because it has a large clip. It takes 3 shots anyways, so what is the use of the other weapons? For me, pistols are generally a last resort and by then it's one of those (oh crap) situations. I'm not in the habit having a lot of time to aim for the head. Some people might do that, even then, it's a two shot kill for the head with ANY pistol (with the exception of ranged, where the Dessert Eagle has the only advantage).

Balance? What balance?

[edit] Then again, MW3 did seem to go backwards when it comes to weapon balance. - I re-checked, I was reading the right damages but the wiki confused me for a second. On my 2nd check I was reading the wrong weapons, LOL, the humor in that. I had the right damages in the first place. At least, according to online sources. - So my stance is staying. I've said it many times, they fix or make something nice and then wreck everything else.
Edited by mushroomboy - 5/30/13 at 6:30pm
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post #179 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

You didn't quite get what I was saying. I don't really hate spread that much in the game, it's not the best but I've seen worse and I've seen better. That is tolerable. Recoil could be done better, most definitely. As well as some of the other mechanics. I have never said they need a major overhaul either, most big online games don't do that anyways. Minor tweaks.

Take pistols for example, the .44 Magnum in MW3 does 49 damage. Ok, that's decent. Now take the Five Seven, it does 36 damage. With how damage is done, it still takes 3 shots for both pistols at close range. Despite the fact that one gun is a .44 round and the other is a .224 round. What!? Why not up the .44 1dmg, make it 2 shot kill as it's an obviously larger gun. It should be more powerful, better HS multiplier, longer range. I'll agree to it's accuracy being worse but those are not even close to moderately realistic. You could tighten those up a lot, still be hugely unrealistic in the game, and fix weapon balance.

What I'm talking about is, the gun stats are completely unbalanced. The only gun that does more damage than the rest ranged, it's the Dessert Eagle. Everything else, EVERYTHING does 17dmg ranged. Really? Your telling me that a .224/.44/.45/ect... all do the same damage ranged? Then what is the point to those guns at all? Why have multiple guns that do the same damage, or even if they don't, take the same amount of shots to kill with the exception of head shots.

So what you are saying is, that's balanced? Even if you don't accurately portray those pistols, you aren't even giving an unrealistic weapon balance. There is no weapon balance for those mechanics. That's just gun stats, not even true engine mechanics. I've already pointed out a huge broken aspect of the weapon setup without getting into more stuff, THATS why COD isn't nearly as competitive as it should be. The DE at close range, doing it's "max" damage is still a 3 shot weapon. We are firing a .50 round, granted a handgun but how the heck does that mount up to a .224 caliber weapon doing 36 damage? Because they intentionally put weapon damages just below the threshold as to keep people from abusing high powered pistols.

Again, either it's really shoddy development or it's them not wanting to make any balance in the game. Which as a gamer, even if I wanted a casual game, weapons should have distinctive qualities as to give the person an incentive as to why they want to use that gun. Otherwise, as far as pistols go, I might as well always use the Five Seven just because it has a large clip. It takes 3 shots anyways, so what is the use of the other weapons? For me, pistols are generally a last resort and by then it's one of those (oh crap) situations. I'm not in the habit having a lot of time to aim for the head. Some people might do that, even then, it's a two shot kill for the head with ANY pistol (with the exception of ranged, where the Dessert Eagle has the only advantage).

Balance? What balance?

[edit] Then again, MW3 did seem to go backwards when it comes to weapon balance. - I re-checked, I was reading the right damages but the wiki confused me for a second. On my 2nd check I was reading the wrong weapons, LOL, the humor in that. I had the right damages in the first place. At least, according to online sources. - So my stance is staying. I've said it many times, they fix or make something nice and then wreck everything else.

All of the stats go right out of the window in Hardcore mode, have you tried it? I think you would greatly enjoy it over the standard game if your biggest peeve is that unrealistic representation of caliber based damage.

In addition to that, do you see my point though, asking why you would play "this game" if you need realism? I don't quite get a response to that so maybe you missed it. The things you brought up are also things I would like to see in the game, however, I found that HC opens up the door to using the gun you prefer over the gun you "have" to use. I think that is why they don't need to balance the "main" game because if you feel it is unfair or unbalanced, those players can jump on Hardcore, and play the game slightly more realistically.

Lets be honest, nobody getting clipped with a 0.224 is just going to get up and start sprinting afterwards. You have to realize that this is a game, a specific game, to a specific group.
Edited by RagingCain - 5/31/13 at 7:27am
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post #180 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

All of the stats go right out of the window in Hardcore mode, have you tried it? I think you would greatly enjoy it over the standard game if your biggest peeve is that unrealistic representation of caliber based damage.

In addition to that, do you see my point though, asking why you would play "this game" if you need realism? I don't quite get a response to that so maybe you missed it. The things you brought up are also things I would like to see in the game, however, I found that HC opens up the door to using the gun you prefer over the gun you "have" to use. I think that is why they don't need to balance the "main" game because if you feel it is unfair or unbalanced, those players can jump on Hardcore, and play the game slightly more realistically.

Lets be honest, nobody getting clipped with a 0.224 is just going to get up and start sprinting afterwards. You have to realize that this is a game, a specific game, to a specific group.

you need to try promod dude, is way better and is more competitive but is only for cod 4 but is way better!!! than vanilla try it thumb.gif
    
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