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post #191 of 206
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Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Moderate or Administer a Gameserver, then get back to me on that. The only people who even think that are ones that've never seen the console side of a public server.

Even quality antivirus doesn't stop someone actively trying to get in. In fact, to anyone who knows how, those antiviruses have off switches. Heck, they don't even protect you from your own stupidity, they just try to keep away the low level things and hope you don't ask one in on accident.

Again, Moderate a server and get back to me.

Your entire post is that of someone who has no idea what they're talking about and wants it to "just work". Well, life isn't that way. Deal with it.

EDIT: Oh, and there's more to moderating a server than just catching cheaters. I can list plenty of examples if you like that no software would ever catch.

Was going to rep you till i saw... Thank you for sticking up for my points. People dont know how cheats really work, its off putting. You see all these anti-x cheat hate posts with no validity.

And to the 0ring, was not aware they could get them. Is it 100%?

Well, you're right. My title here on OCN lets me see that fact clear as day since I deal with it all the time. Even if I didn't, having basic knowledge of programs and how to exploit them is enough to know no such perfect anti-cheat will ever exist.

My main task on the OCN MC server (besides administering it) is scripting. When I do something, I put about 20% of my time into making an outline, 10% writing the script, 50% puttin on my jerk mask and trying to figure out all the different ways I could exploit my own script to do things it isn't meant to, and the remaining 20% goes to adapting my script to make it as exploit free as I possibly can. More times than I'd like to remember, it was possible to exploit them, and I had to go back and fix them again. I've even denied writing some things that would have been really cool because I had no way to get them up to my own standards. That's the way of things sometimes sadly.

You can't IF check everything. It doesn't work that way. All you can do is the best you can, hope no one breaks it, and fix it when they do. It's an uphill battle, all the way, and they outnumber you hundreds or thousands to one.

The only game that can't be hacked is "Hello World", and with some time and a batch job of your own, even that isn't true.
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post #192 of 206
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Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Was going to rep you till i saw... Thank you for sticking up for my points. People dont know how cheats really work, its off putting. You see all these anti-x cheat hate posts with no validity.

And to the 0ring, was not aware they could get them. Is it 100%?

Absolutely 100% confirmed. If you look through the link I put above you'll noticed the guys who code them are even shocked as they've coded their ring0 hack and has been undetected since they got into the business. A few other ring0 hacks were also detected the same day, Valve did work with VAC.
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post #193 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Was going to rep you till i saw... Thank you for sticking up for my points. People dont know how cheats really work, its off putting. You see all these anti-x cheat hate posts with no validity.

And to the 0ring, was not aware they could get them. Is it 100%?

Absolutely 100% confirmed. If you look through the link I put above you'll noticed the guys who code them are even shocked as they've coded their ring0 hack and has been undetected since they got into the business. A few other ring0 hacks were also detected the same day, Valve did work with VAC.
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post #194 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmasteR View Post

Absolutely 100% confirmed. If you look through the link I put above you'll noticed the guys who code them are even shocked as they've coded their ring0 hack and has been undetected since they got into the business. A few other ring0 hacks were also detected the same day, Valve did work with VAC.

Well thats odd, the tab made you first...

Wad just going to say, valve is vac. Its their anti cheat baby, they designed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Well, you're right. My title here on OCN lets me see that fact clear as day since I deal with it all the time. Even if I didn't, having basic knowledge of programs and how to exploit them is enough to know no such perfect anti-cheat will ever exist.

My main task on the OCN MC server (besides administering it) is scripting. When I do something, I put about 20% of my time into making an outline, 10% writing the script, 50% puttin on my jerk mask and trying to figure out all the different ways I could exploit my own script to do things it isn't meant to, and the remaining 20% goes to adapting my script to make it as exploit free as I possibly can. More times than I'd like to remember, it was possible to exploit them, and I had to go back and fix them again. I've even denied writing some things that would have been really cool because I had no way to get them up to my own standards. That's the way of things sometimes sadly.

You can't IF check everything. It doesn't work that way. All you can do is the best you can, hope no one breaks it, and fix it when they do. It's an uphill battle, all the way, and they outnumber you hundreds or thousands to one.

The only game that can't be hacked is "Hello World", and with some time and a batch job of your own, even that isn't true.

Isnt that how it goes? An uphill battle, where the outlets with the most profit have the most struggle?

People underestimate the amount of money to be made in hacks, it is more than av exploits by far. Sure you make more per sale on exploits but one game hack can make millions. On top of that, many pro hacks exploit major flaws. So the next hack update is a minor tweak, just like a game update, so the work is minimal.

Take texture hacks, nearly impossible to remove. With how well we can fake crc and other identifiers it makes things hard. The same principles apply to full blown hacks, just many do not understand how difficult it is to prevent that.

With av, many exploits do not change things like code signatures( you know what i mean if you understand ), so a lot of av flags are done that way. What causes false positives? Programs with the same signature as actual viruses or similar exploits. Thing is, people who code cheats are used to changing these things. Bluntly, it is not an apt comparison.

(edit) you guys are arguying out of your league. Unless you do this for a living, which i doubt. Im sure other respected people on the forum will agree. Exploits are not that easy or simple to debate. I'll be honest, not being mean, stop while you are ahead.

Iv read up on problems with pb and vac, as with other ac solutions. Read how cheats are made, all sorts of things.

Like how you can do wall hacks without being banned? On both systems this is a huge issue. In all honesty aimbots are the least of the problems, but what does a 10+ yr counterstrike player know. Not to mention iv been gaming shooters since quake. Its a very hard subject, almost any vet in administration will say its hard to squash.
Edited by mushroomboy - 6/1/13 at 1:39am
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post #195 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Moderate or Administer a Gameserver, then get back to me on that.
I have
Quote:
The only people who even think that are ones that've never seen the console side of a public server.
Surely I am not the first...

Quote:
Even quality antivirus doesn't stop someone actively trying to get in. In fact, to anyone who knows how, those antiviruses have off switches.
I said they stop malware - which is what they were intended for - I never said antivirus will stop people trying to hack your PC - obviously something they are not designed for.

Within the scope of an av program, they are very capable of doing as advertised.
Quote:
Again, Moderate a server and get back to me.
I have moderate and administered my fair share of game servers, and I stand by what I have posted.

Considering you are a mod, I*'d think you would be more open to these things - instead of attacking those who have a different pov.
Quote:
Your entire post is that of someone who has no idea what they're talking about and wants it to "just work".
My post is based on knowledge gained from developing and publishing online games and over a decade experience working in the IT industry. I can say flat out that with a billion dollars it would be piss easy to develop an anticheat system that actually worked and caught 99.9% of the hacks on the market at any given time wink.gif
Quote:
EDIT: Oh, and there's more to moderating a server than just catching cheaters.
you don't say...
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post #196 of 206
Meh, who cares, the series is ruined by Activision who keeps releasing the same old crap every year, even if it ran of a new engine won't save the series unless they find something new, but of course, that won't happen.
    
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post #197 of 206
not surprised, why innovate when you can reuse and milk the same old engine just like before, slap on a cheesy drama, offer <4 hours of content and sell it for $99 with minimal costs

i swear by the next few iteration of the game intel would have atom processors capable of running the latest COD title at 4k resolution at maxed detail at over 120fps
post #198 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-nefer View Post

I have
Surely I am not the first...
I said they stop malware - which is what they were intended for - I never said antivirus will stop people trying to hack your PC - obviously something they are not designed for.

Within the scope of an av program, they are very capable of doing as advertised.
I have moderate and administered my fair share of game servers, and I stand by what I have posted.

Considering you are a mod, I*'d think you would be more open to these things - instead of attacking those who have a different pov.
My post is based on knowledge gained from developing and publishing online games and over a decade experience working in the IT industry. I can say flat out that with a billion dollars it would be piss easy to develop an anticheat system that actually worked and caught 99.9% of the hacks on the market at any given time wink.gif
you don't say...

You can't compare malware to hacks or cheats. Even the best antivirus doesn't stop a huge amount of exploits.

You ever been in the FXP scene? What keeps it alive? No seriously, find out what keeps it alive and you have the same answer as to why anti-cheat systems won't work. You are comparing apples to oranges in that example, which makes your debate look worse.

The major difference between those that have known exploits that bypass AV and those that bypass cheat systems is, they release them for money. Not only that, it's easier to create a cheat exploit. AV has to stop exploits that are automatic, best case for a system hacker and an exploit. What anti-cheat systems have to catch are things the user runs intentionally, that normally inject or hook onto program functions. This is a completely different mentality, as one doesn't require as much real time scanning or complications there of (AV). Yeah, AV does real time protection. Thing is, if you had an exploit that required the user to run how often would AV catch it?

You would probably argue that it isn't a fare case, AV isn't designed to catch user ran exploits. So why do you even bother to think they are the same? If the user gives a program administrator rights and runs it to inject or modify a program, it's a lot harder to "stop" it. You then have to start scanning in real time game functions. You can't just scan for general injector signatures, as those are easily masked by a good coder. So then what?

On top of this, there is a multitude of programs that hook naturally and would have possible false positives. Fraps? That acts in the same way as common wall hacks. SweetFX? Same thing, so many of those injectors do the same thing that cheats do. A lot of PC gamers want those types of applications present, which creates pressure on developers to allow them. That leaves room for error and other exploits.

This isn't nearly as simple as you are making things out to be and it's kind of dishonest of you to keep this ignorant stance.

[edit] Afterthought: If you think AV is so amazing, why do you still hear of techniques that bypass quite a few AV solutions? Botnets use this quite often, since it is most beneficial. The major issue is finding a system exploit that you can infiltrate either manually (hacking) or automatic.
Edited by mushroomboy - 6/1/13 at 12:23pm
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post #199 of 206


doh.giflachen.gif
post #200 of 206
If they would dump money into the work and effort into a new engine, also assuming they do a good job with that title, they would make even more monies.

I wonder if they know this.
 
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