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post #191 of 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

good luck on that one for haswell your budget of $900 wont get you a very good setup quality wise or offer you much overclocking potential for $900.


Basicaly with a $900 budget you will likely be skimping it on quality in a few areas period which is not wise to do when you expect to rely and game on this machine and literaly torture it with alot of hours of gaming hardcore and such last thing you want to do is skimp on quality or cooling.

sounds to me like you are trying to play with the big dogs with paper route / weekend lawn mowwing money lol.

haswell has already been proven not to perform much over previous gen and in most cases not overclock as well either the haswell was designed and is more suited for laptops they focused on the built in graphics on the chip and power efficiency and around 3% average performance increase with a max of around 10% in some situations.

a good real world idea of just this http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/579/Intel_Core_i5_i5-3570K_vs_Intel_Core_i5_i5-4670K.html look at this website i linked and then select benchmarks at top of page there are many more just look online and in this forum and you will see it is so small of a increase it realy isnt worth the hassle or cost to go haswell.

30 seconds of my life wasted reading this garbage of a post. Stupidest post I have read in a long while.
post #192 of 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruennis View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

good luck on that one for haswell your budget of $900 wont get you a very good setup quality wise or offer you much overclocking potential for $900.


Basicaly with a $900 budget you will likely be skimping it on quality in a few areas period which is not wise to do when you expect to rely and game on this machine and literaly torture it with alot of hours of gaming hardcore and such last thing you want to do is skimp on quality or cooling.

sounds to me like you are trying to play with the big dogs with paper route / weekend lawn mowwing money lol.

haswell has already been proven not to perform much over previous gen and in most cases not overclock as well either the haswell was designed and is more suited for laptops they focused on the built in graphics on the chip and power efficiency and around 3% average performance increase with a max of around 10% in some situations.

a good real world idea of just this http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/579/Intel_Core_i5_i5-3570K_vs_Intel_Core_i5_i5-4670K.html look at this website i linked and then select benchmarks at top of page there are many more just look online and in this forum and you will see it is so small of a increase it realy isnt worth the hassle or cost to go haswell.

30 seconds of my life wasted reading this garbage of a post. Stupidest post I have read in a long while.

look if you dont like what i am saying look around this is a widely accepted thought because the haswell did not perform near as well as expected and was reported to have and was more meant to be a laptop cpu than a enthusiast desktop cpu.
Edited by rickcooperjr - 6/2/13 at 4:07pm
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post #193 of 488
Intel has already said they are more catering to the mobile market than to the enthusiast market that is what they have been working on and towards for a few years now hince why they are so hardcore hell bent at the power efficiency side of things which cuts the overclocking potential alot add to it also they are not worrying to much about higher clocks or anything just better power efficiency and better built in graphics on the CPU chip what does that spell out for you for me it is for a laptop or mobile device not enthusiast.

A enthusiast would never say the oem built in onboard graphics is enough they will always look for addin graphics cards and such to get better performance so this focusing on onboard graphics and power efficiency does not relate to enthusiast.

I also want to point this out i have found in many of the haswell reviews the common overclock the haswells are hitting is around 4.6ghz even when under liquid and require alot of juice to get above this then they run into thermal issues even under liquid trust me do the research these things are needing alot of juice to go above 4.6ghz we are talking 1.55v-1.65v for 5ghz+ for all cores not just single core cpuz i found one other day for the i7 4770k that was 1.72v to hit 5.8ghz on all cores to get it stable thru a prime95 run and that was on LN2 and liquid helium.

also as a scale 4.6ghz is equivalent to 4.7-4.8ghz of previous gen so yes it does benefit from overclocking but it is unlikely to pass previous generation in the upper amount of overclocking limit / performance so sticking with previous gen and overclocking will yeild nearly exact results.

I also want to point out once you get to around 5ghz it is common for performance to actualy decline on the haswell due to the built in efficiency / heat issues apparently at around 5ghz it hits a wall period and performance doesnt increase much period and stability becomes a major issue above 4.6ghz+ also these CPU's are plaqued by the IHS thermal compound issue also as previous gen was which meens in a short time temps will start rising and rising till temps are a constant issue regardless of cooling and only way to fix is to delid the CPU to fix it.
Edited by rickcooperjr - 6/2/13 at 4:53pm
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Intel I7 5820k 4.6ghz core 4.3ghz CPU cache 1.345v asus sabertooth X99 sold R9 290x's am currently running a R9 280A X... 16gb of ddr4 corsair vengeance LPX 3200mhz 1t 1... 
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M.2 Toshiba OCZ RD400 512gb ASUS DVD rw  liquid cooled cpu and gpu's windows 10 pro 64bit 
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post #194 of 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

look if you dont like what i am saying look around this is a widely accepted thought because the haswell did not perform near as well as expected and was reported to have and was more meant to be a laptop cpu than a enthusiast desktop cpu.

Haswell is a mainstream socket. Not an enthusiast socket (LGA2011). It did what it is supposed to do. 5-10% increase in performance over the previous generation. It performed/performs as well as anyone with a rational and sane mind would think it would perform. Only a few SKUs are actually laptop CPU SKUs. Haswell itself was to increase iGPU, power consumption, and IPC increases. That is an architecture change. Not that a "was more meant to be a laptop cpu than a enthusiast desktop cpu". Also read the first sentence I just wrote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

Intel has already said they are more catering to the mobile market than to the enthusiast market that is what they have been working on and towards for a few years now hince why they are so hardcore hell bent at the power efficiency side of things which cuts the overclocking potential alot add to it also they are not worrying to much about higher clocks or anything just better power efficiency and better built in graphics on the CPU chip what does that spell out for you for me it is for a laptop or mobile device not enthusiast.

You really don't get what Haswell is about right? I'll repeat it again: HASWELL WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE AN ENTHUSIAST SOCKET. Intel already has an enthusiast socket: LGA2011. Does that get through now? Oh, and you know all that stuff relating to power efficiency? It has nothing to do with overclocking potential. That directly affects the TDP of a chip. The reason Haswell (and Ivy) ran/run hot was due to too much space between the IHS and the die. It never was a matter of them using TIM or not. You can put awful TIM on a de-lidded Ivy and still get far better temperatures because lo-and-behold, you removed that gap between the die and the IHS. A low TDP chip with its IHS on correctly will easily run cooler than a high TDP chip with its IHS on correctly. It has nothing to do with the potential overclock that your CPU is capable of doing.

Oh, and to cap it off: doh.gif on your statement about, "they are not worrying to much about higher clocks or anything just better power efficiency and better built in graphics on the CPU chip what does that spell out for you for me it is for a laptop or mobile device not enthusiast", just now took the dumbest sentence in a comment trophy on OCN. If you even half bothered to realize that clock speeds (gigglehurtz) aren't an end-all-be-all to how a chip performs. That comes down to the IPS/IPC of a CPU.

Oh, and your lovely comments about power. I might live in the USA where power is cheaper than water. Now you might not realize this in southern Illinois, but the USA is around 4.5% of the world's population. That other 95.5% of the population of the world doesn't have dirt cheap electricity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

A enthusiast would never say the oem built in onboard graphics is enough they will always look for addin graphics cards and such to get better performance so this focusing on onboard graphics and power efficiency does not relate to enthusiast.

Apparently you've never been stuck in the situation where you've had to RMA your GPU because of a faulty component on it giving you major artifacts that have nothing to do with a GPU overclock. Have fun not having a playable computer during that time (or a computer for that matter, since you have nothing to output to your monitor without an iGPU).

Oh, and since you mention it, I'll mention it again. In bold and larger letters! HASWELL IS A MAINSTREAM SOCKET. NOT AN ENTHUSIAST SOCKET. Man, when are you going to get it? Oh, and to reiterate it again, power efficiency and better onboard graphics are good for everyone. Especially power efficiency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

I also want to point this out i have found in many of the haswell reviews the common overclock the haswells are hitting is around 4.6ghz even when under liquid and require alot of juice to get above this then they run into thermal issues even under liquid trust me do the research these things are needing alot of juice to go above 4.6ghz we are talking 1.55v-1.65v for 5ghz+ for all cores not just single core cpuz i found one other day for the i7 4770k that was 1.72v to hit 5.8ghz on all cores to get it stable thru a prime95 run and that was on LN2 and liquid helium.

I'm not sure if you've realized this, and you probably haven't because you probably have not read through all of the Haswell reviews, but the i7-4770k overclocking reviews are coming out at extreme spectrums. Either reviewers got a garbage chip, which happens to Intel and AMD alike, or reviewers got a great chip, which happens to AMD and Intel alike. What I'm hearing from you is that you are getting onto the circlejerk that Haswell is a hot chip. Its no hotter than Ivy. I'll leave you with the source and quote from the lovely people over at Overclockers.com on their Haswell review. I think you'll like it (or hate it since you are so damn blatantly fanboy its not even funny).
Quote:
It overclocks well on ambient cooling – especially our sample – but that overclocking level will depend heavily on your particular CPU. Thanks to speaking with the kind folks at ASUS (whose efforts helped make the on-release overclocking guide with excellent tips and guidance possible), we know that the average CPU overclock on Haswell might go down a little bit. There are dogs (4.3 GHz chips) and there are great chips (4.8 GHz+), all at the same voltage. On average, you can expect general overclocks in the 4.5-4.8 GHz range. The dogs are rare, but they do exist.

Speaking of ambient cooling, you’re going to want a solid cooling setup for Haswell. They don’t run much hotter than Ivy Bridge, but you can expect a 5-10 °C increase due to the integrated voltage regulator. As such, if you’re looking to push these chips hard, a very high end air cooler to custom water loop would be something to consider. The folks at ASUS even think single-stage cooling (think the older Lian Li cases with a weaker built-in single stage) is going to make a comeback, and I’m inclined to agree with them.

Extreme overclockers will be happy to know you can expect good things from good Haswell chips. Even mid-line chips will be worth your investment. What was a 6.7-6.9 GHz Ivy Bridge chip (tough to get, took lots of binning and/or expensive to purchase pre-binned) will now be more like a 6.3-6.5 GHz chip (easier to find, meaning less money involved). You’ll still have to bin to get the 6.9-7.1 GHz Haswell chip of course, but most people can be happy if they get 6.5-6.7 GHz chip, especially if you’re mostly looking at 3D benchmarking.

These chips can be resilient too. Folks saw a CPUz validation of a chip with 2.5V put through it. I can finally spill it – that was not a CPUz glitch. Early ES chips did allow that much voltage and they did put that much through it. The thing lives to this day. You won’t be able to put that much through them any more (I think the cap is ~1.9V now), but you can do so with relative confidence. These chips do have cold bugs though, unlike many Ivy Bridge chips, so expect to monitor your pots and keep them around the -140 °C level (higher for worse-clocking chips).
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

also as a scale 4.6ghz is equivalent to 4.7-4.8ghz of previous gen so yes it does benefit from overclocking but it is unlikely to pass previous generation in the upper amount of overclocking limit / performance so sticking with previous gen and overclocking will yeild nearly exact results.

Not even worth my time to write another schpeal stating the same thing. Read that lovely excerpt from Overclockers.com.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

I also want to point out once you get to around 5ghz it is common for performance to actualy decline on the haswell due to the built in efficiency / heat issues apparently at around 5ghz it hits a wall period and performance doesnt increase much period and stability becomes a major issue above 4.6ghz+ also these CPU's are plaqued by the IHS thermal compound issue also as previous gen was which meens in a short time temps will start rising and rising till temps are a constant issue regardless of cooling and only way to fix is to delid the CPU to fix it.

I'll say it once again. Go do your damn research next time. Stop this garbage fanboy crap and blatantly wrong posting. We are here on this forum to help others that need help. Not give them misinformation.


And I'm amazed that I even took the time to show how garbage this and the previous posts were.
post #195 of 488
Hokies83 is right...
as of right now the best chip out there is a delidded 3770K and even better if you got it from Microcenter (if live close)..
the limited headroom without SUPERIOR cooling and sometimes even with the cooling is a deal breaker for me.

rickcooperjr - blocking you man, your kookoo.gif
post #196 of 488
Thread Starter 
So can anyone recommend some specs?
post #197 of 488
well for one i will never be left without a gaming machine given i have 3-4 here at all times ready to rock and play almost all games maxxed out add to it i always have a bunch of extra graphics cards laying around and often motherboards / CPU/s / ram also and usualy 5-6 PSU's laying around at around 1000w so i believe i got myself covered if a GPU or entire unit goes to crap and i am waiting for an RMA which i recieve overnight nextday i have a new item no questions asked and i send other one back when i get time. I wont be down for long i have a backup server / media server also here at my home with 12tb of storage on a full gigabit network so i will say again i wont be down long and 1 downed rig is nothing to worry about for me a key hint i am a hardware tester / reviewer myself and also happen to do alot of testing directly from the main companies not the side companies and i often get to play with unreleased hardware a little hint there so for all of you that are riding my $%& and acting like i am blowwing smoke this i am not i know what i am talking about.
Edited by rickcooperjr - 6/2/13 at 6:09pm
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Intel I7 5820k 4.6ghz core 4.3ghz CPU cache 1.345v asus sabertooth X99 sold R9 290x's am currently running a R9 280A X... 16gb of ddr4 corsair vengeance LPX 3200mhz 1t 1... 
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M.2 Toshiba OCZ RD400 512gb ASUS DVD rw  liquid cooled cpu and gpu's windows 10 pro 64bit 
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3 x 32lcd/led 2560x1600 wolfking timberwolf EVGA supernova 1300w G2  Thermaltake core X9 
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post #198 of 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by kole208 View Post

So can anyone recommend some specs?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: MSI Z87-G43 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($127.13 @ TigerDirect)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($55.25 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($58.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 3GB Video Card ($289.99 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite (White) ATX Mid Tower Case ($42.79 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($61.24 @ Amazon)
Total: $915.36
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-02 21:11 EDT-0400)


There is a $20 rebate on that GPU bringing it down to $269.99, which will bring it under your $900 limit.
post #199 of 488
and incase you want to judge me by the way i type in the forums well i dont get paid or get anything out of the forums other than to give my honest opinion and advise and as of recently i have come to conclusion this forum population is way to Intel biased / fanboyish for its own good.
Edited by rickcooperjr - 6/2/13 at 6:18pm
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 5820k 4.6ghz core 4.3ghz CPU cache 1.345v asus sabertooth X99 sold R9 290x's am currently running a R9 280A X... 16gb of ddr4 corsair vengeance LPX 3200mhz 1t 1... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
M.2 Toshiba OCZ RD400 512gb ASUS DVD rw  liquid cooled cpu and gpu's windows 10 pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3 x 32lcd/led 2560x1600 wolfking timberwolf EVGA supernova 1300w G2  Thermaltake core X9 
MouseMouse PadOther
steel series wow cataclysm 14button programable  wolfking sniper Intel PRO PT dual port PCIe server NIC 
  hide details  
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 5820k 4.6ghz core 4.3ghz CPU cache 1.345v asus sabertooth X99 sold R9 290x's am currently running a R9 280A X... 16gb of ddr4 corsair vengeance LPX 3200mhz 1t 1... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
M.2 Toshiba OCZ RD400 512gb ASUS DVD rw  liquid cooled cpu and gpu's windows 10 pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3 x 32lcd/led 2560x1600 wolfking timberwolf EVGA supernova 1300w G2  Thermaltake core X9 
MouseMouse PadOther
steel series wow cataclysm 14button programable  wolfking sniper Intel PRO PT dual port PCIe server NIC 
  hide details  
post #200 of 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinaesthetic View Post

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: MSI Z87-G43 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($127.13 @ TigerDirect)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($55.25 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($58.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 3GB Video Card ($289.99 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite (White) ATX Mid Tower Case ($42.79 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($61.24 @ Amazon)
Total: $915.36
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-02 21:11 EDT-0400)


There is a $20 rebate on that GPU bringing it down to $269.99, which will bring it under your $900 limit.


While I love AMD CPU Builds - that sir, is one nice Fanboy proof build. +1
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