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Are there ANY OEMs that actually deliver a quality product?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
It seems like all OEMs are more or less the same. The worst things about OEM builds are the following IMO:

- The OEM installed malware that comes with windows. They call it "trial software," but it's really no different then other malware. The software will pop up every few days asking you to buy a license. How is that any different then a virus that makes ads pop up to try to get you to buy crap you don't need? I would say, by far, this is the worst part of any OEM machine.
- Crappy motherboards. The motherboard is one of the most important components of the computer, but isn't even mentioned with OEM machines. They generally mention CPU, RAM, hard drive space, GPU. I would say gigabyte has more marketing material describing the features of their "ultra durable" mobos then dell has describing the features of their entire machine. I have my doubts as to whether OEM mobos provide enough bandwidth between components.
- Crappy PSUs that are rated at pretty much exactly what the machine can draw, and not a watt more
- Crappy cooling. I haven't owned a dell in a long time, but the last one I saw had a retarded design involving air tunnels over the CPU
- Cheapest RAM/GPU possible.
- Basically cheapest everything possible that they don't advertise specifically. Like they don't advertise how fast the RAM is, so it's probably slow RAM.

Are there any OEMs that build machines w/ quality parts, and don't install any malware along with windows?
post #2 of 11
By your definition, I think the answer is NO.

Most of the time there's no reason why you can't re-install a clean version of the OS using their license key, so I don't really consider the 'bloatware' crap they pre-install on it an issue. Generally I think many of the things you are describing are less of a problem then they once were. For example, Intel must have some tight specifications for motherboard manufacturers on their 1155 chipsets because I haven't seen alot of hardware failures even on lowend boards.
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post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryDemon View Post

By your definition, I think the answer is NO.

Most of the time there's no reason why you can't re-install a clean version of the OS using their license key, so I don't really consider the 'bloatware' crap they pre-install on it an issue. Generally I think many of the things you are describing are less of a problem then they once were. For example, Intel must have some tight specifications for motherboard manufacturers on their 1155 chipsets because I haven't seen alot of hardware failures even on lowend boards.

Well I do, because the biggest annoyance in building a PC is installing the OS and other drivers you need to use the computer. Throwing the parts into a box doesn't take that long.

If you're going to have to install the OS yourself, you might as well build the whole computer as well.
post #4 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by demoship View Post

It seems like all OEMs are more or less the same. The worst things about OEM builds are the following IMO:

- The OEM installed malware that comes with windows. They call it "trial software," but it's really no different then other malware. The software will pop up every few days asking you to buy a license. How is that any different then a virus that makes ads pop up to try to get you to buy crap you don't need? I would say, by far, this is the worst part of any OEM machine.
- Crappy motherboards. The motherboard is one of the most important components of the computer, but isn't even mentioned with OEM machines. They generally mention CPU, RAM, hard drive space, GPU. I would say gigabyte has more marketing material describing the features of their "ultra durable" mobos then dell has describing the features of their entire machine. I have my doubts as to whether OEM mobos provide enough bandwidth between components.
- Crappy PSUs that are rated at pretty much exactly what the machine can draw, and not a watt more
- Crappy cooling. I haven't owned a dell in a long time, but the last one I saw had a retarded design involving air tunnels over the CPU
- Cheapest RAM/GPU possible.
- Basically cheapest everything possible that they don't advertise specifically. Like they don't advertise how fast the RAM is, so it's probably slow RAM.

Are there any OEMs that build machines w/ quality parts, and don't install any malware along with windows?

1. I agree.

2. Not really. There are crappier low end boards out there than OEM boards. Just because a board is locked down with regards to features doesn't make it crap. My P5LP-LE from a HP has more fan control options than my Rampage II Gene.

3. Not really either. Yes, they don't use the best components, but the PSU has to be of a certain quality such that it doesn't blow up in your face. Imagine the sheer number of class action lawsuits if a certain HP or Dell series had power supplies that blew. They're not the best power supplies in the world but they're way better than generic grey boxes.

4. Not really either. Dell has a reason for that air tunnel. Its called the BTX form factor and they are using a single chassis fan to cool both the CPU and expel hot air out. Frankly I feel its a great idea given the one-way through airflow. All you need is a layer of mesh or foam to filter the front intake, and make it an excellent airflow pattern. Not all OEMs have crap cooling either. Look at the Acer desktops - those seem to have some form of a glorified Intel stock cooler with a funnel on top of it, but that funnel and that fan are there for a reason, and Acer makes one of the quietest PCs on the market.
The same goes for the likes of HP and Lenovo which I've seen being very generous with the use of heatpipe coolers when the need arose.

5. Cheapest RAM? Its basically the same thing as a pair of Kingston KVR value RAM, or the Crucial Value RAM or G.Skill NT you see online. The same just sans warranty. GPU? Maybe, but don't forget that these are built to higher standards as well. They do not bin chips or memory but that doesn't mean its utter crap either. These are being marketed to people who have no idea what an MTBF and failure rate count means. Just because it doesn't overclock doesn't make it utter crap either. It'll probably outlast most consumer GPUs on the market.

6. Its marketing that the general population doesn't need. They want to know how much RAM, not how fast the RAM is. Either way, they'll stick to industry standards. If the in-thing right now is to be using 1333MHz sticks, they use 1333MHz sticks.
Though you might have a salient point here - manufacturers used to care about things like dual channel RAM and whatnot. Now you'd probably be hard-pressed to find a consumer-grade (not business grade mind you) desktop PC with dual channel.
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post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Yeah, there's crappier boards out there, but generally an educated buyer (and someone who's building a PC HAS to be somewhat educated to successfully put together something that'll run) will not buy those boards unless they're on a very tight budget. I would say the majority of custom builds use a quality mobo.

I also remember a major incident with dell supplying machines w/ bad capacitors. There WAS a class action lawsuit over that.

The PSUs aren't blowing up in people's faces, but the failure rate is definitely there, especially if you try to do something like upgrade the graphics card.

Also, as far as cooling goes, the issue is the cooling is usually designed without much overhead, so once the machine is a year or so old with accumulated dust and what not, it'll start running into issues because of that. With my last build, I had so much overhead on cooling that I never cleaned it once in 3 years and didn't have (additional) temperature issues (there were temperature issues because of the 8800GT which ran super-hot brand new). And people who buy OEM built machines are less likely to clean their computers then people who build them.

The problem is, when you're running everything without overhead, there's issues that come into play down the line (and usually after the warranty's up). There's a reason why people put 650 watt PSUs in their machine when a 500 watt PSU would cover the 490 watts of actual power usage.
post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by demoship View Post

Well I do, because the biggest annoyance in building a PC is installing the OS and other drivers you need to use the computer. Throwing the parts into a box doesn't take that long.

If you're going to have to install the OS yourself, you might as well build the whole computer as well.

Yeah I agree, I would never buy a new OEM computer. But there are a lot of been times when I've gotten an amazing deal on a Openbox or Refurbished computer, or have been asked to upgrade a family/friend/co-workers OEM computer.
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post #7 of 11
Not really sure what you mean by OEM, but CyberpowerPC will build you whatever you want. They'll only install the software you ask them to. That's how it use to be. Haven't purchased anything from them in awhile, but I believe that is how they still roll.
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post #8 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by demoship View Post

It seems like all OEMs are more or less the same. The worst things about OEM builds are the following IMO:

- The OEM installed malware that comes with windows. They call it "trial software," but it's really no different then other malware. The software will pop up every few days asking you to buy a license. How is that any different then a virus that makes ads pop up to try to get you to buy crap you don't need? I would say, by far, this is the worst part of any OEM machine.
- Crappy motherboards. The motherboard is one of the most important components of the computer, but isn't even mentioned with OEM machines. They generally mention CPU, RAM, hard drive space, GPU. I would say gigabyte has more marketing material describing the features of their "ultra durable" mobos then dell has describing the features of their entire machine. I have my doubts as to whether OEM mobos provide enough bandwidth between components.
- Crappy PSUs that are rated at pretty much exactly what the machine can draw, and not a watt more
- Crappy cooling. I haven't owned a dell in a long time, but the last one I saw had a retarded design involving air tunnels over the CPU
- Cheapest RAM/GPU possible.
- Basically cheapest everything possible that they don't advertise specifically. Like they don't advertise how fast the RAM is, so it's probably slow RAM.

Are there any OEMs that build machines w/ quality parts, and don't install any malware along with windows?

 

- Yea, those make the system cheaper. Quite easy to just uninstall them or do a fresh install...

- On the product page, there's almost always details about the motherboard - features, upgrade options, etc. It's all usually there, from almost every OEM. If you can't find that info on the product page, you can always call/email and request that info... Not quite sure what you're on about here; What are you talking about with the bandwidth? The average OEM machine is a basic chipset board (H67 for instance), one x16, a couple x4s and x1, pci slot or two, couple ram slots. These boards aren't any different from a board you can buy at NewEgg other than being locked down with OEM specific bios.

- Maybe bottom end machines, the average system I've ever worked on has had plenty of overhead for the components they shipped with, can add a upper mid-range gpu with room to spare. Low end "Facebook" machines aren't sold with the expectation they'll be upgraded with killer gpus, if that's something you want to do, buy a higher-end system or go with a boutique dealer (AVADirect, XoticPC, PC-Specialists etc). Is failing psu a big problem in OEM machines? I've never had a dead psu in a OEM machine that was less than 5 years old.

- I can agree with cooling, especially cheap middle range machines and lower.

- You get what you pay for.

- Cheapest everything? Don't advertise how fast the ram is? What? You can go on any Dell/Lenovo/Toshiba/HP listing and it'll tell you what speed the ram is (usually 1333 and since SB/IB 1600)... On configurable systems you can add more ram, faster ram, faster gpu, cpu etc etc, what are you on about? What OEMs are you looking at? If you can't find the info on the website, you can always call you know and request more info or use their online chat

 

 

Yes, they're generally pricier as well.

While I won't buy a OEM if I can avoid it, they cab be extremely flexible if you call in to make an order.

 
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post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski-bum View Post

Not really sure what you mean by OEM, but CyberpowerPC will build you whatever you want. They'll only install the software you ask them to. That's how it use to be. Haven't purchased anything from them in awhile, but I believe that is how they still roll.

That's definitely not a 'typical' OEM.

It's more like paying some guy a few hundred bucks to build your PC for you, except they commercialized it. And it looks like the prices for upgrades are a hell of a lot more reasonable then typical OEMs. It looks like they're doing about cost + 20% markup. Like if you were to get an extra hard drive from them installed it'd cost you like $30 more then buying it yourself, versus paying double from dell. Though the base price is more expensive since they don't offer machines designed to shave every cent of cost off of it.

Too bad they don't offer small laptops, otherwise I'd look into buying my next one from them.
post #10 of 11
the ONLY reason, for ANYONE, ANYWHERE to go with mainstream OEM is for a support package.

there are various reasons why it may be more cost effective to completely offload all responsibility onto a specialised, much larger company for your IT needs.

from a desktop computer to a huge server room, in some cases, it will be more efficient to just buy it boxed with a support package. basically if any sort of failure or downtime costs you a ton of money it can be an attractive selling point. rest assured that after you pay 4x too much for your hardware and support package, GenericCompany will be there to fix it for you 24/7/365.

otherwise you should hire a professional to tell you what to buy, or ask OCN, and then get your local PC place to put it together if you cant. or your IT team, or w/e the situation is.
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