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$1500 Starcraft Build for Friend: Ivy or Haswell? - Page 3

post #21 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by CravinR1 View Post

Newer drivers gave a huge performance boost for amd. Also at stock my 7950 gets 8300 3DMark 11 and my friends similar setup gets 9185. Only over clocking my 7950 the score goes to 9600. Basically over clocked to max the 7950 is faster than the more expensive 670.
Huh? I was talking about the graph, nothing about any card but my own.
And I get 11k in 3dmark..
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post #22 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemurAmir View Post

@Cyro999: Lots of information haha... The PSU was to allow SLI later, but we already decided to drop to a Rosewill Hive 650W since of the large price difference.
One thing to keep in mind is that this is my friend's first build; I'm not sure how comfortable he will be setting voltages to relatively high levels. I've seen the benchmarks Linus tested from his video, but I've also seen multiple benchmark that contradict his? For example, notebookcheck (mostly mobile, but has the 7770 and 7970) and benchmarks from Nvidia (yeah, may be biased). Those both tested Heart of the Swarm rather than WOL, but I doubt the huge differences are a result of that. Also, would you recommend waiting for Haswell then since you seem to be saying sc2 is overwhelmingly bound by the CPU?

I have also heard from multiple online threads that Starcraft seems to favor Nvidia GPUs more than AMD. I can't find many benchmarks with recent examples, but here is one where the 670 is ahead of the 7960 at ultra settings.

@AlphaC: Are those benchmarks with max settings? Thanks for the deal links, I'll try to get him to pick up the HDD and case tonight. I was not planning on using EVGA stepup and actually was recommended to go with an Asus 660TI rather than EVGA because of better cooling? This is if we still decide to go with the 660TI, which may not be the case now.

@zylonite: I'm pretty sure it'd be difficult to max out with $500 considering he needs to buy OS and monitor.

Almost every bench for sc2 out there is awful. The linus one is pretty good. That notebookcheck one for example - there's never more than about 30 units anywhere in the bench. They're testing the intro to a single player 1.5 base challenge with really small waves of attacking units. It's silly.

Any bench simulating 1v1 worst cases should show the 3570k around 30fps +- say, 50%, depending on how they do it, and any GPU bench should isolate CPU and not use forced AA that makes the game look a ton worse and hard to play, but i see a ton of numbers both far under and far over what i would expect for gpu performance, there's no way any modern gpu (even the 7750 i think) would be below triple digit fps with game maxed, looking at 6 workers. Again they're leagues above the gtx 260 and i see ~250fps on med shaders etc with that, well above triple digits with the game maxed at the very start of the game when GPU bottleneck is at its worst, and GPU is far more than strong enough to not pull down minimum FPS later in the game when there's hunderds of units running around.

It's been discussed a lot on TL, we basically don't reccomend systems with >7770 any more for maxing just sc2. Overclocking is practically every system build though and often higher end stuff, because it's really relevant (especially if you're trying to stream)

There's a ton of benches, Linus's testing methodology is one of the very few that is both covered in detail, and sane (even though it's not pushing as hard as i'd like) and other benches are all over the place. In the gtx780 windforce review for example, there's a chart showing ~150fps on max settings, in what they called a 1v1 max battle, on a CPU that was nothing special - which is blown so far out of the water i dont even know how they managed to **** the numbers up so much

Haswell, it all comes down to OC. I thought we'd have some information on if haswell would be trash or awesome closer than 6 days from release, but hey, we don't. Only lots of shady chinese stuff, and quite a few people giving completely contradictory reports, with others whispering "just wait til nda lifts it's amazing kekekeke"

And lower end, hd7k series is just better deals


In regards to setting voltage to very high levels; I dont think you can kill the CPU with voltage unless you delid, like i don't think it's seriously possible. Belial88 (if you want to pm him) is using 1.5v and some others are doing similar, but a hr-02 macho for example caps out at about 1.35v without delidding. You can't really get above 1.4 without delid due to temperatures - which while being suicide on sandy bridge (eventually, and especially if your temps were not down far) seems quite tame on ivy bridge
Edited by Cyro999 - 5/27/13 at 8:24pm
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post #23 of 53
what cyro is saying is very accurate.

plz keep in mind that worst case benches are just that, if your game is a bit chunky in 2v2 maxed units its not the end of the world. as stated, 4v4 maxed will basically grind any processor to a halt. you cant really buy your way out of sc2's cpu hell, you can only mitigate it as much as possible.

the takeaway is that you want to overclock a nice 4 core as far as your comfortable with because that's the bottleneck for sc2 performance. if you try to run a stock cpu no matter what you buy its going to suck. thank the sc2 team for spending 10 years coding a game that only runs 2 threads.

DO NOT BE AFRAID OF VOLTAGE. just find out whats safe, ask people, they tell you, trust me its safe. i always run things right up to whatever everyone else on here is doing and no intel chip has asploded on me as of yet. ive seen 1.5v in cpuz on air with my 2500K. (briefly)

if you are reasonably under what everyone is saying is the high end of voltage for your chip, you are like 100% safe, there is no reason not to do it, overclocking is great. your friend has no reason to worry about a reasonable overclock on his chip. just up the multi till it crashes, up the voltage till it doesn't, rinse repeat. don't go over your predetermined max voltage you are comfy with ever. of course all the while keeping good eye on temps and under your comfy recommended max temps for your chip.
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post #24 of 53
Thread Starter 
I see what you mean with the inaccurate benchmarking setups. I took a look at an old Tom's Hardware Benchmark test they did on Starcraft which I think also had a good setup and in their results, in cards better than the gtx 460, the performance did seem limited by CPU severely. I never realized starcraft was so GPU light doh.gif I'll talk to him about which card to drop down to; he might want to go with a card better than the 7770 since he might begin playing other games later on.

With that being said, have you seen any difference between Radeon or Nvidia being favored in this game?

Also thanks guys for the advice on overclocking. It's up to my friend, however, how far he wants to push it. It'll take him awhile to actually learn about overclocking actually as well.
Edited by TemurAmir - 5/27/13 at 9:24pm
post #25 of 53
ati NVidia is like... k without using real countries its like asking country A to get along with country B even tho they hate eachother for whatever reason. everyone from country A is like, $#^ country B they suk and heres why, and the reverse for country B.

basically they are both good. in some cases for a particular application, eg "I only want to play sc2 ever and that's all I care about" a comparison could be made which would probably point to a clear winner. in most cases at a particular price point each of them is better at different things, games, etc.

some games love particular one or the other, that also can be researched. at a given price point I mean.

*edit to answer your question I have seen only that NVidia does good with sc2, i have no idea if 7xxx is better.
Edited by Jollyburner - 5/27/13 at 11:14pm
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post #26 of 53
For pure bang for buck and destroys nvidia now. I am not a fan boy and have owned both manufacturers. A 660 ti costs as much as a 7950 and is slower than a 7870 once over clocked. Not to mention and has 4 games u can play or sale and costs much less.

My last video card purchases:
7950
5870
Gtx 260
8800 gts 512
8800 gts 320
7600 gt
6200le
5200 fix
Ati xpert@play
post #27 of 53
I made $100 off the games included with the new AMD cards. basically bought a 7950 for $200 Shipped to my house thumb.gif

you seriously cant beat the bang for buck. i have a single 1080p monitor, my i5 and 7950 combo has played every game on max settings 60+ fps easily.
    
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post #28 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemurAmir View Post

Yeah, his budget can definitely allow for better graphics card, but since he'll be getting ~60+ fps with the 660TI on this build, I thought maybe he could put that money away for future GPU upgrades.

 

Why not get a better GPU now so he doesn't have to upgrade later? You've got another $300 or so to play with so make the most of it.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyburner View Post

*edit to answer your question I have seen only that NVidia does good with sc2, i have no idea if 7xxx is better.

 

7950 does fine. StarCraft 2 is more about CPU power which the 3570k should handle fine..

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post #29 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Well it's pretty nasty, no stock CPU has over ~30fps minimums in 1v1 right now, doubling unit counts for 2v2 if you go to quad max situation is not pretty, and insane mass unit benches (simulating 8 player max out etc) run pretty much any cpu at single digit fps =P
I must have missed something, my Q6600 and 465 had no trouble handling 4v4 battles on fast build maps with increased unit counts. What are you talking about? Benchmarks are useless when the actual game performance while online is what matters. Especially considering most of the time you are slowed down by the one person on the map using dialup anyways.


And op, 1500 here is enough to built a PC that can easily handle any game out to date, albeit with some reduction of shinies when it comes to crysis and metro and the like. You could easily squeeze a 680 in there, with a 3770K, and have some cash left over.
Edited by Masta Squidge - 5/28/13 at 1:47pm
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post #30 of 53
I made it through the campaign just fine at 1920 x 1200 on a 5870 with no worries. It's hard to imagine a 660 or 7950 would have much trouble.
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