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$1500 Starcraft Build for Friend: Ivy or Haswell? - Page 5

post #41 of 53
at op:
not sure if the build on first post is still what you are going to buy, but in my experience RTS games like high instructions per clock and huge cache: because of this i would advise:
get 4770K and bump it to 4.5/5.0, whichever is stable [best ipc and most cache]
670 or 770 nvidia (not a fanboy, but sicne 4850 random crashes on desktop i stay away from amd/ati), whichever fits your budger
get an ssd for the game, you will appreciate it
8G of fast ram

that should leave you ~300$ for psu and case (maybe i am wrong tho)
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post #42 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora51 View Post

That is a really good question. i get sometimes in the very lategame in 4vs4 with many 200er Armys fps below 60. This is really extreme.
But it might be possible that my mates slow the Game so much that my fps drops aswell. Is it possible someone with an (for example) dual core slows the Game so much?

My graphic is middle and effects ultra in the Game. Effects uses alot power but i think its not enough to justify any low fps.
GPU is a 7950. Or atleast some driver is problem i dont know.

It is sometimes hard to compare too. Every 4vs4 Game is different and 200 lings are different to 30 tanks etc
In the Unit Test map i get around 60 fps with 250 banelings and 100 lings moving. Interesting.
Try cleaning the computer of all the drivers. Then install the lastest ones (not the beta drivers). Also be sure to overclock it. thumb.gif
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post #43 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyburner View Post

kk.. well im not trying to win a contest here but...

all of SC2 agrees with me. for 1. anything below 60fps is hurting your game if you are high level player.

for 2, and the following is based purely on my own assumptions, I don't know im right, I assume I am. when you are getting a readout of 30 fps, its cause your dropping frames, not cause your doing a smooth 30 fps. its cause you were supposed to get 60 fps, relatively smoothly, and u didn't, because some of it took too long. were u to look at it veeery closely it probably looks like little groups of errors when things get really busy, followed by normal framerates. like within a given second.

heres a visual demonstration:

Os represent frames drawn, x frames dropped. lets imagine we looking at approx. one second of time:

OOOOxOOOxOOOOxxxOxxxxOOxxOOOOxOOOOOOOxOOOOOxOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

about riiiiight here ^ is where you got dunked by input lag and lost your ladder match. you probably experienced something like 100-200ms of lag. or something around there. roughly.

so... wrapping things up here, if theres any further explanation required I will do my best, and if im wrong, well I look forward to standing corrected.
Last I checked, dropping a frame doesn't affect your input at all. This isn't the early 90s anymore.
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post #44 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADHDadditiv View Post

How do you manage to get such low FPS in SC2. I can play the same type of match on my 670 and be somewhere around 50-60FPS.

its the cpu that is responsible for sc2 performance, not your gcard. a 670 will smash sc2 maxed graphics without even breaking a sweat. you could play another game on another monitor, that is if your cpu has enough juice left on the other cores.
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post #45 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post

Last I checked, dropping a frame doesn't affect your input at all. This isn't the early 90s anymore.

I don't know why I have to answer these, but.. dropping frames affects your input. like it affects *YOUR* input, what you are seeing. you react to what you are seeing to play the game, mostly. a bit of it is sounds, but really id say 99% (maybe more) is seeing the pixels on your screen that represent units in the game, and then, I say again, AND THEN, you can react to them. until you see them you cant react. and while part of sc2 is maxing your army and then executing the correct commands when you engage, it does involve quite a bit of reactionary strategy at the higher levels. not sure how well im describing it here. ill use some unit examples (I haven't played HOTS yet)

Templar -
feedback - point and click casting targeting specific, often smallish, units
storm - gotta see em to storm em

ghost -
snipe - see above

etc etc


ergo, eretofore, and ere after, dropping frames does in fact affect your performance.

--

if any1 is reading this and wondering how they might spend money to fix this:

#1 ultra OC a badass cpu, cores don't matter, 4 cores minimum, K/X series chips, the higher your clock the better performance will be. good memory.

#2 *theory* I have no idea if this will work, but getting 120Hz monitor and ridiculous gcard might actually help, ridiculous memory, aswell as pcie 3.0 cards (no idea, it talks faster to cpu, might help) but if any were talkin about marginal improvement, cpu is going to be the determining factor. look into it if you are sc2 >semi-pro or streamer and made of $$. youd have to test and see if it does anything, or google for benchies. go to teamliquid and see if anyone is answering these questions.
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post #46 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyburner View Post

its the cpu that is responsible for sc2 performance, not your gcard. a 670 will smash sc2 maxed graphics without even breaking a sweat. you could play another game on another monitor, that is if your cpu has enough juice left on the other cores.
Last time I checked, my CPU is barely used in SC2 (unless im on a custom map with alot of variables). My CPU usage rarely goes over 40%, meanwhile my GPU usage is at 80-100%. So thanks for that little tidbit of info. tongue.gif
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post #47 of 53
D-D-D-Double post fail, fail, fail!
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post #48 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADHDadditiv View Post

Last time I checked, my CPU is barely used in SC2 (unless im on a custom map with alot of variables). My CPU usage rarely goes over 40%, meanwhile my GPU usage is at 80-100%. So thanks for that little tidbit of info. tongue.gif

were talking about playing ladder, I haven't owned a 670 but id imagine with a decent OC you can max sc2 and play ladder games without hitting 100% usage. at any rate were not even talking about that. the reason your cpu never goes over 40% is that sc2 only runs on 2 threads, so your max theoretical is 50%. factor in load balancing, inefficiencies in the thread management system with your background processes and your max cpu usage in sc2 is going to be between 40% and 45% average. which is what your looking at when u task manager.

so

everything I have said so far is fairly accurate. plz people stop chiming in, Im trying to educate not repeat myself. im sure somewhere up there this has been covered already.

I will state one last time

the opinions I have expressed in this thread are roughly congruent with those of teh high level sc2 community. you need a moar cpu and the grafix are fine for sc2. if u are pro and u drop below 60 fps it makes u sux. if u are silver and u cant zvz cause its too hard, you wont notice it.
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post #49 of 53
SC2 not only uses a lot of CPU power but also quite inefficiently at that. My X4 955 never went above two cores when the game was running. Not much GPU power was ever used at all, even my old 6950 maxed out the game at 1080p without breaking a sweat. It was the CPU holding everything back, I got the same choppiness during late game no matter which graphics settings I was on (sometimes the fps dipped as low as 12-13).

Also the game doesn't support multiple monitors setup, and you can't really play on a screen larger than 24" (too big to catch everything at once), so an uber expensive graphics card is a waste. Investing in Haswell is not a bad idea.
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post #50 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyburner View Post

were talking about playing ladder, I haven't owned a 670 but id imagine with a decent OC you can max sc2 and play ladder games without hitting 100% usage. at any rate were not even talking about that. the reason your cpu never goes over 40% is that sc2 only runs on 2 threads, so your max theoretical is 50%. factor in load balancing, inefficiencies in the thread management system with your background processes and your max cpu usage in sc2 is going to be between 40% and 45% average. which is what your looking at when u task manager.

so

everything I have said so far is fairly accurate. plz people stop chiming in, Im trying to educate not repeat myself. im sure somewhere up there this has been covered already.

I will state one last time

the opinions I have expressed in this thread are roughly congruent with those of teh high level sc2 community. you need a moar cpu and the grafix are fine for sc2. if u are pro and u drop below 60 fps it makes u sux. if u are silver and u cant zvz cause its too hard, you wont notice it.
Ok so what you're saying is that when all 4 of my cores are at 40% in SC2, I am only using 2 cores...
What you're saying does make sense, but I can say that anything higher then a 3570k is quite useless for that game. Plus Haswell isn't going to be all that much faster, I would wait til it comes out though... the 3570k will be dirt cheap! thumb.gif

I can say I have met some of those "high tech level SC2 Community people", they tried to tell me that I could RAID my SSD with my two 1T HDD's... in Raid 0....

*EDIT*
Wow this post doesn't make any sense, lol.
Edited by ADHDadditiv - 5/31/13 at 11:16am
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