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Next-gen consoles have separate cores for physics?

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 
TL:DR - PS4 used for example

1152 cores confirmed.

Dual Kabini APU's = Eight Jaguar CPU cores and single 128 core integrated total GPU cores.

1152 confirmed cores minus 128 APU cores = 1024 GPU cores i.e. 7850 desktop GPU.

OR

Dual Kabini APU's = Eight Jaguar CPU cores and dual 128 GPU core clusters (256 total).

1152 confirmed cores minus 256 APU cores = 896 GPU cores i.e. 7790 desktop GPU.

What do you think?


So I was looking at the new "Kabini" aka Jaguar APU's AMD is releasing and they have 128 GPU cores...so if you take those 128 cores away from the 1152 cores in the PS4 and the 768 cores from the Xbox One you end up with 1024 cores in the PS4 and 640 cores for the Xbox.

1024 cores = 7850 desktop GPU

640 cores = 7770 desktop GPU

So, based purely on numbers it would appear that the new consoles will perhaps have a separate 128 core cluster..."for what" you say? GPU computing. Physics processing. This leaves the 1024 and 640 cores, the GPU's, for actual graphics and not having to hinder them with GPU computing...which makes sense.

So, if my theory is correct, what exactly would 128 cores be capable of as far as GPU computing goes? Closest thing desktop wise is the actual Kabini APU GPU's which could range anywhere from a HD 8180 to HD 8400...these models only differing in clock speed (300MHz to 600MHz).

Could 128 cores actually do things like liquid, cloth, particles, etc at an acceptable quality?

OR is it possible that the consoles are using DUAL APU's (since each current Jaguar APU is quad-core and the consoles are octa-core...makes sense, right?) THUS increasing the number of GPU compute cores to 256 (dual 128 cores...one per APU quad-core cluster) and leaving the actual GPU's at 512 cores (desktop 7750) for the Xbox One and 896 cores for the PS4 (7790 desktop...which would coincide with early rumors that the 7790 was a next-gen console inspired GPU).

Now having said that, I could see 256 cores for GPU computing being quite impressive while still leaving the actual GPU to do its thing (though a 7790 to a 7850 is a slightly depressing drop in GPU power).


Thoughts?


*By cores I mean stream processors of course.

**Sorry is post is a little all over the place...it's too damn early.
Edited by AndroidVageta - 5/27/13 at 5:14am
post #2 of 7
can we stop having 50 freaking threads with all the same crap about the war on next gen consoles?

besides you are trying to compare completely different architectures together. one core of this is not the same as one core of that. why not everyone wait til the damn things get released then you will know EXACTLY how they all perform. and which one IS better, not which one will HYPOTHETICALLY be better based on unconfirmed rumors and ill conceived "comparisons"
Edited by Fieldsweeper - 5/27/13 at 4:27am
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post #3 of 7
Thread Starter 
Dude...what?

I'm not battling consoles, I'm simply talking about architecture and the possibility of the consoles having separate GPU cores for GPU computing.

Also, no, no I'm not trying to compare different architectures. The scenarios above perfectly reflect what is known about the consoles and what is known about the tech that is used inside them that is coming to PC's.

Jaguar cores (that are used inside the consoles) is what the new AMD desktop/tablet APU's are using. Same tech.

GCN (graphic core next) cores are exactly what is in the new APU's and new GPU's from AMD.

There is no war here nor made up hypothetical hardware...it already exists.

I'm simply stating that what's inside the consoles will have a separate GPU for graphics and a separate GPU computing cluster. Actually, as a matter of fact, it would seem that the scenarios I've created are EXACTLY what the next-gen consoles are using. Based on what we know now of what AMD is releasing it makes perfect sense.

The consoles are nothing more than dual Kabini APU's with underclocked desktop GPU's. Memory architectures are different, but the core CPU/GPU seems to be nothing more than true desktop parts.
Edited by AndroidVageta - 5/27/13 at 4:36am
post #4 of 7
PS4 is based off the 7970m with shaders taken away.
It is GCN 1.0

the 7790 (what is what the xbox one is based off of)
is GCN 1.2


GCN is nativity built for compute. They don't need to dedicate a part of the GPU to it, they are reassign what they need on will.

On the PS4 physics will be done on the GPU, and don't think physx type of graphics as physx is also on the 360 and ps3 and does nothing. Physx is cuda based anyway and will for you to use the CPU, when devs can program the same thing to open cl and run them on the GPU itself.

Though xbox one has the cloud that can do some background physics and other processes. Could easily stream graphics like skies and trees and grass in the background, as well as other things.
Edited by DzillaXx - 5/27/13 at 5:35am
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post #5 of 7
Thread Starter 
That doesn't make sense...why would they do that instead of just utilizing what's already on the APU and what they already have designed for desktop GPU's. Redesigning the 7970m is more work than just slapping a couple APU's together and throwing in a lower clocked 7790 (which, as I showed above makes much more sense architecturally and number of cores wise) .

Not saying you are wrong it just doesn't make sense from a cost/development stand point. I mean, do you have anything to back you up?

Plus, it would make development easier I'm sure to have two separate clusters...one for computing and one for graphics instead of trying to juggle a single GPU for graphics and computing. Having separate parts makes things more easy to develop for and take advantage of. You can say, "OK we have this for this and that for that" instead of "we can use this much but this might need a little bit more and will take away from this" etc.
post #6 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidVageta View Post

That doesn't make sense...why would they do that instead of just utilizing what's already on the APU and what they already have designed for desktop GPU's. Redesigning the 7970m is more work than just slapping a couple APU's together and throwing in a lower clocked 7790 (which, as I showed above makes much more sense architecturally and number of cores wise) .

Not saying you are wrong it just doesn't make sense from a cost/development stand point. I mean, do you have anything to back you up?

Plus, it would make development easier I'm sure to have two separate clusters...one for computing and one for graphics instead of trying to juggle a single GPU for graphics and computing. Having separate parts makes things more easy to develop for and take advantage of. You can say, "OK we have this for this and that for that" instead of "we can use this much but this might need a little bit more and will take away from this" etc.

GCN is native compute. it can do graphic work or computational work, it is fully flexible. No need to dedicate things for it, you assign as much compute power you need and use the rest for graphics. No point in having a compute processor that isnt being fully used.


PS3 has compute units on the Cell, programming to use those compute units (pretty much FPU units aka SPE's) were no easy walk in the park. And if you were going to port a game over to that system taking advantage on those cores meant rewriting parts of the game.


GCN just doesn't need that because it is multi purpose.
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post #7 of 7
Thread Starter 
Who knows man...I mean, the PS4/Xbox could be using entirely custom hardware...or at least GPU's...it's just in my opinion, that seems like it would be a lot more work than what's it worth. Like I said, I could see the memory architecture being custom, for sure (considering the GDDR5 for system RAM in the PS4/eSRAM on the Xbox) but the CPU/GPU seems like it would much easier to just pull the parts off a shelf, slap them together, lower clocks for power limits, and call it a day.
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