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[V2] Microsoft: "We Aren't Using Kinect To Snoop." - Page 16

post #151 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by revro View Post

just starts recording people when they rent out for example a prn movie.

i live in a country where police was illegally recording people without judges permission. dont say it cannot happen in us or anywhere else because it happened and will happen in future. and your good word stands for nothing. once you get collusion of few people who work with the technology all checkboxes are no biggie, they will just be falsified after the fact. thats what happened in my country. since there were more people with access to technology, noone was charged, noone was fired because they couldnot identify the person who made the recordings.

xbone is one big trojan horse. they dont have to record everything, its a gateway through which they CAN if they WANT record politicians, businessmen, reporters and then blackmail them. once 50m xbones were sold, videos of noncompliant politicians renting prn movie could leak and MS will say, hey they got hacked, we are not responsible, who could have known

best
revro

No offense meant because you are providing a sound argument (which I really appreciate) but even if it was possible to do that here it would be quite illegal. If it gets to the point that someone is monitoring some one then this xbox issue isn't a good method of collecting data. The xbox would be located in one room of a home and only aware of things in that particular room. They would be better off setting up a wire tap and put the home under surveillance with acoustic and video equipment.

There are only two possible situations this could play out in. The first is that everyone is being recorded. Searching that data to find anything would be very difficult. The second situation would be where a known individual is being watched and again at that point there are much better ways to get data about them.

A final thought for this is that the services provided by the xbox are actually the same as the Windows 8 platforms. Are you afraid you are being watched from your computer, tablets, or phone? Why in the world would they go through the effort to build this system just to get information that is much easier to get elsewhere?

At the end of the day I still believe in personal privacy and I should be given the option of not having the thing (kinect sensor) in the first place. I fully support people who want to remain anonymous because it is a core belief here in the states. Compared to most of Europe we live quite anonymously here. All I am trying to do is point out why the xbox is not some piece of equipment that will provide information that isn't available else where. This issue has just spiraled out of control from over active imaginations about what the things are capable of. Really take a look around about this issue. Microsoft has not said anything about what it can and/or will do. People all across the web have been saying what they think it can do without any actually understanding of the science behind it. I know exactly how the kinect works to the point I know I could build one myself so I know what its limits are.

I hope I am at least presenting a clear logical argument here. And by all means I hope there are people that can disagree with me about it because this is a great discussion topic. There are also a few what if scenarios that are possible but highly unlikely to ever happen.
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post #152 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylepdalton View Post

No offense meant because you are providing a sound argument (which I really appreciate) but even if it was possible to do that here it would be quite illegal.

then you missed his point entirely

you truly believe as it stands today that your safe in an organizations hands, be it your place of work and your work colleagues to place a live 1080p 3D, biometric 24/7 camera and HD wide boundary Mic in your living room or bedroom and NOT be slightly perturbed by this notion? which is the first point.. relaxing in your home.. is it still your home or a tv studio / advertising stream?

Furthermore you truly believe as of today (and i respectfully assume you are smart) given all the stuff you have read in the papers, seen on TV, Discussed on the internet over the years with regards to hacking,privacy breaches, information collusion between government and big business that they would need a 'super-warrant' ? this is nonsensical, if the US Gov banged on Microsoft's door and asked for kinect access immediately due to a possible nuke threat would they say "nup, you need to get your papers son" , "come back in 3 weeks" .. they would look first and then get the papers.. the press wouldn't know about it until it was cleaned up ? you may think hmm its worth the risk even if they get absolutely no information and the by product is 50 million households under virtual surveillance. For peoples freedom i don't think it is, we shouldn't kneel to this fear campaign as you have rightly said there are many other ways of obtaining information.

you know, and im trying not to be patronizing secret services are secret , events can and do happen before due process.

you let them in now into your home, then every box you buy in the future will copy the formula and everyone who doesn't want their privacy invaded is excluded from any content.


and if you want to get genuinely paranoid or Orwellian it gives some backwards nations the 'tools' to make it law to have one of those boxes in lets say 10 - 15 years from now. where by you and your family sign in for your day, all it took was a little imagination to come up with that and you know this will cross some peoples minds ... arrowheadsmiley.png
Edited by Pip Boy - 5/29/13 at 2:34am
post #153 of 289
The fact that they felt the need to come out and say this would make me suspicious..
post #154 of 289
Its called playing to the crowd (both positive and negative) so that you get almost unlimited market vision.

How many xbo articles have we had since reveal?

If you compare the amount of people who will be more excited about hearing of a new console vs those who truly believe or even care about "snooping" in this facebook generation, all this turns into is free advertising.
Edited by GrizzleBoy - 5/29/13 at 3:44am
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post #155 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post


and if you want to get genuinely paranoid or Orwellian it gives some backwards nations the 'tools' to make it law to have one of those boxes in lets say 10 - 15 years from now. where by you and your family sign in for your day, all it took was a little imagination to come up with that and you know this will cross some peoples minds ... arrowheadsmiley.png

The whole point is that no one is listening. No one is watching with this thing and it doesn't stay on 24/7. No one will pay any attention to you unless you give them a reason (which I know for a fact is a lot more difficult than you would think). Why do I say that, you might ask? It is simple really, people are believing that this thing is watching what they are doing and is able to analyze possible recordings automatically which isn't true. There is absolutely no possible way to move, store, and analyze this data at any real scale for everyone. Yes they could do it on a one by one basis but why would they? There are currently no models that can even begin to sort through this information automatically even if it was possible to collect it. This is still a business so they will not do anything if it doesn't increase revenue.

If it came to a matter of national security there is a whole different set of protocols that are placed into action on any given threat assessment. Those protocols include the use of equipment far more advanced than a glorified web cam. While somewhat technically possible to take control of the thing from outside there just isn't a point. If a government or agency wants to spy or snoop on someone they will. There is nothing that can be done about it and for sure the xbox will neither help nor hinder that process. The same types of people who believe this thing is able to collect usable information are the ones who think there are satellites that can see through walls and follow people in real time any where in the world. It just is not entirely possible.

All this is predicated on the idea that individuals are holding themselves as important to a company. That company could not care less about a individual. The companies want to know what we do that will make them money. Trying to get that information from an audio video source that is what most people are having an issue with is not really possible. They are going to get the most amount of information with the least amount of effort. Your music, movie, TV, and searches through your xbox live account is a much better source of information.

I'll be the first to say I would not want to be watched anywhere inside my home. With that in mind and my knowledge on the capabilities of this system I wouldn't have a problem letting one inside my home. Now if I see some major breakthrough in machine learning visualizations where a semi-intelligent AI come close to being able pull off and replicate the type of work I do then yea I'll think about unplugging when not in use. I'll also cross my fingers in hopes that I was the one to develop that breakthrough. It is kind of a holy grail for people in my research area and we are not really close to it yet.

Holy wall of text Batman! I apologize for that. Writing a dissertation and multiple journal publications has fused my brain to fingers for typing.
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post #156 of 289


people must sit here thinking the kinect is going to be doing this to everything in its view....

With the xbox off, the only amount of processing the kinect is going to be doing is "listening" for anything that remotely sounds like "Xbox On"
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post #157 of 289
I also have a feeling that MS could actually come out and say exactly what their plans were and reasoning for the 24/7 xbox on policy, yet, the peeps in here will just roll their eyes and speculate more. It's smart to be skeptical at taking a company's word at face value, but I think MS get's WAYYYYYYY more flak from individuals on their products, just because their name is on it.
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post #158 of 289
Quote:
No offense meant because you are providing a sound argument (which I really appreciate) but even if it was possible to do that here it would be quite illegal. If it gets to the point that someone is monitoring some one then this xbox issue isn't a good method of collecting data. The xbox would be located in one room of a home and only aware of things in that particular room. They would be better off setting up a wire tap and put the home under surveillance with acoustic and video equipment.
no problem i see you are nice guy, but come on. once damage is done its done. just yesterday group of 4 cops was busted in my country for putting false drugs to peoples cars and then blackmailing them for money as possession is 4-10years in my country. in most of the world console would be in livingroom where most talking happens, and if tv goes over xbox you can listen to what people say about news and so on. so yeah livingroom is the place for listening device to be.
Quote:
There are only two possible situations this could play out in. The first is that everyone is being recorded. Searching that data to find anything would be very difficult. The second situation would be where a known individual is being watched and again at that point there are much better ways to get data about them.
how else are you to get better data than video from xbone in livingroom? i mean mobiles are usually pointed to top with their camera so you can get only audio feed from them as video would be unusable. anyway you dont have to record everything for analysis, just run randomized recording: record 1 minute out of every console and then analyze it via computers for voice or video patterns. the resources needed would decrease but you would still get enough information to analyze. ou boy when did i become an evil genius xD
Quote:
A final thought for this is that the services provided by the xbox are actually the same as the Windows 8 platforms. Are you afraid you are being watched from your computer, tablets, or phone? Why in the world would they go through the effort to build this system just to get information that is much easier to get elsewhere?
i am running win7 desktop without microphone or webcamera, android phone is running on unused gmail address and i dont use any data program, just my wifi" which has name hidden and is turned off 95% of time. PS: my employer taught me that i am not paranoid but that i have great qualification for risk management smile.gif
Quote:
At the end of the day I still believe in personal privacy and I should be given the option of not having the thing (kinect sensor) in the first place. I fully support people who want to remain anonymous because it is a core belief here in the states. Compared to most of Europe we live quite anonymously here. All I am trying to do is point out why the xbox is not some piece of equipment that will provide information that isn't available else where. This issue has just spiraled out of control from over active imaginations about what the things are capable of. Really take a look around about this issue. Microsoft has not said anything about what it can and/or will do. People all across the web have been saying what they think it can do without any actually understanding of the science behind it. I know exactly how the kinect works to the point I know I could build one myself so I know what its limits are.
MS is the same company that is visiting links used in skype conversations, why do they do that? smile.gif how do we in Europe dont live anonymously? cause we have personal id cards?
Quote:
The whole point is that no one is listening. No one is watching with this thing and it doesn't stay on 24/7. No one will pay any attention to you unless you give them a reason (which I know for a fact is a lot more difficult than you would think). Why do I say that, you might ask? It is simple really, people are believing that this thing is watching what they are doing and is able to analyze possible recordings automatically which isn't true. There is absolutely no possible way to move, store, and analyze this data at any real scale for everyone. Yes they could do it on a one by one basis but why would they? There are currently no models that can even begin to sort through this information automatically even if it was possible to collect it. This is still a business so they will not do anything if it doesn't increase revenue.
they would do it because theres always money to be made by fleecing taxpayers and call it increasing security. CCTV system in london for example costs dozens of milions and helped solve only few dozen minor crimes.

best
revro
post #159 of 289
Quote:
There were also reports that because the Xbox One would always be on in a low power state, Kinect would always be watching, sparking privacy concerns [n]. However, a Microsoft representative has since walked this back, saying "It is not always watching or always listening... you can turn the system completely off. This would use no power and turn everything off.[/B We’ll share more details about how it all works later."
Quote:
It should be mentioned that the Kinect is not going to be required for all games, just the ones that the developers want to use the hardware for.

http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/Xbox_One_Kinect
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post #160 of 289
The concern is a hacker getting into the system and using it to watch you in your home. Now is this not likely, well sure. But that does not dismiss the possibility.
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