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[V2] Microsoft: "We Aren't Using Kinect To Snoop." - Page 23

post #221 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Or that MS has to abide by all the same rules as anybody else. Did you give up your right to privacy when you bought a cell phone?

Question: How many times are people going to have to tell you that the phone analogy doesn't work before you stop posting it? I swear I've had to say this 3 times but: It's different, it doesn't work...My phone? I can disable all connections permanently and still use most of the feature, hell, even if I just have a data connection off the only possible way to get anything would be by streaming the mic similar to how it would in a phone call. That's very different to what MS could do with the Kinect...You would generally have WiFi connected to it and a 1080p camera right there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

all companies are bad, but sony is extra bad

SOURCE
business or not, that move was entirely disrespectful and goes to show where their values lay

Do you want me to even start posting all of the crap MS has done? No company is worth trusting with anything meaningful, hence why if I get a PS4 and it comes with the webcam? Well, that web-cam is staying off, in the box and unplugged, even if it is annoying that I have to pay for something I don't want.
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post #222 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Question: How many times are people going to have to tell you that the phone analogy doesn't work before you stop posting it? I swear I've had to say this 3 times but: It's different, it doesn't work...My phone? I can disable all connections permanently and still use most of the feature, hell, even if I just have a data connection off the only possible way to get anything would be by streaming the mic similar to how it would in a phone call. That's very different to what MS could do with the Kinect...You would generally have WiFi connected to it and a 1080p camera right there.
Do you want me to even start posting all of the crap MS has done? No company is worth trusting with anything meaningful, hence why if I get a PS4 and it comes with the webcam? Well, that web-cam is staying off, in the box and unplugged, even if it is annoying that I have to pay for something I don't want.


Problem with the phone is the phone company can turn you phone's ability to broadcast back on, do you really think by turning off your data connection your really loosing your connection rolleyes.gif
If you want to say that the Kinect is able to push kinect data when off, then the analogy about cell phone company being able to turn your phone services on even when you have them off is just as true. Kinect when off is probably a closed system, and probably the same for when it is on. Also you are one person, most people could care less. Last time I checked most are using facebook, and half of those post their daily lives on it. Really if MS wanted to know what most people were doing that would look at their facebook. Kinect is not watching you anymore then a smart TV would, as that also has a camera always watching waiting for a hand to take control of. For one if your so delusional that you need to fear your government from watching you, then your probably better off moving to some 3rd world country. Sony's console really isn't going to be any different, if the web cam is the deal breaker for you then so be it. No one said you need to get a xbox. Xbox One are for people that want to play games as well as do other things. Not everyone plays hardcore shooter games or whatnot, some buy a console for young kids or whatnot. The Kinect Tech in the xbox one blows away the Wii style controllers IMO, really everything you say is about you and nothing more. If MS wants to make a gaming console for every type of gamer then so be it, don't like the rules they provide then don't use it. We don't need to read 100 posts from you stating how you disable your webcams and avoid google services in fear of being watched. This is MS's console, I for one like the options the Kinect brings, I also like not using disc's (I'm a steam man myself and using that model on the next xbox is fine by me), I like a feature packed OS and a OS that is fast, I like a controller that doesn't suck, though online I could careless about as I do all my online gaming on the PC but if I did have to play a console game online it would be with Xbox Live. Plus Xbox Live on the One will have fully dedicated servers, something sony will not have as a standard.

Also $ony has done 20x the shady things MS has done. MS has done same shady things as well, but so has Google.


I will be getting both, probably the Xbox One form day one, and the PS4 after it has been proven to sell decently. Don't want to risk getting a Vita console now.
I got my first 360 day one, and was more then happy I did. Broke 3 times over its life span but fixed by MS's 3 year warranty every time. I have a BC 60gb PS3 that is broken and sony wouldn't fix at all, YLOD. My 80GB BC PS3 works fine, and has been for years but my jasper xbox is quieter then it (when not using the disc drive that is). Will probably do the same this time, Xbox One is packed with features I like. I don't get used games 80% of the time and the few I do end up from ebay or craigslist, I won't even touch gamestop games.
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post #223 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Also you are one person, most people could care less. Last time I checked most are using facebook, and half of those post their daily lives on it.

I for one don't use facebook. does that mean in order to grab information they would not use the other available avenues ? But then again that still misses my and a few others throughout the threads point which is: we should be able to choose to share just like we should be able to not have facebook. Companies are taking advantage of application crowd swarming and deciding that everyone must be the same because its a trend, poor marketing.

Quote:
Also $ony has done 20x the shady things MS has done. MS has done same shady things as well, but so has Google.

actually has done? more like keep doing every day! Sony are pretty damn bad too, got my credit card information stolen too! mad.gif however to look at Sony you have to see that all corps behave badly.. this isnt about that, its about a discussion on choice as with the first point and yes perhaps a little bit on the speculative 'what if'

people are afraid this will set a standard and sadly im sure it will even for standalone streamers and PC applications, ms have basically gone about ruining the family / friend gaming and movie experience we know today, they are just the first in. Sony will follow being heavily involved with the movie industry
Quote:
I will be getting both, probably the Xbox One form day one, and the PS4 after it has been proven to sell decently. Don't want to risk getting a Vita console now.
I got my first 360 day one, and was more then happy I did. Broke 3 times over its life span but fixed by MS's 3 year warranty every time. I have a BC 60gb PS3 that is broken and sony wouldn't fix at all, YLOD. My 80GB BC PS3 works fine, and has been for years but my jasper xbox is quieter then it (when not using the disc drive that is). Will probably do the same this time, Xbox One is packed with features I like. I don't get used games 80% of the time and the few I do end up from ebay or craigslist, I won't even touch gamestop games.

I will see how the PS4 pans out in terms of exclusives and media features (with regards to DRM also) I cant see Sony not doing what MS are if MS are making more money from it given their stupid cinivera watermarking on bluerays. Overall the xbox360 was a better hardware spec and software layer by some way but the quality of my original ps3 was miles higher and still works today, ms gave us a plastic childs toy will grey plastic accessories, in many ways MS's design philosophy speaks volumes as to how they view people.
Edited by Pip Boy - 6/1/13 at 1:18am
post #224 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Problem with the phone is the phone company can turn you phone's ability to broadcast back on, do you really think by turning off your data connection your really loosing your connection rolleyes.gif
If you want to say that the Kinect is able to push kinect data when off, then the analogy about cell phone company being able to turn your phone services on even when you have them off is just as true. Kinect when off is probably a closed system, and probably the same for when it is on. Also you are one person, most people could care less. Last time I checked most are using facebook, and half of those post their daily lives on it. Really if MS wanted to know what most people were doing that would look at their facebook. Kinect is not watching you anymore then a smart TV would, as that also has a camera always watching waiting for a hand to take control of. For one if your so delusional that you need to fear your government from watching you, then your probably better off moving to some 3rd world country. Sony's console really isn't going to be any different, if the web cam is the deal breaker for you then so be it. No one said you need to get a xbox. Xbox One are for people that want to play games as well as do other things. Not everyone plays hardcore shooter games or whatnot, some buy a console for young kids or whatnot. The Kinect Tech in the xbox one blows away the Wii style controllers IMO, really everything you say is about you and nothing more. If MS wants to make a gaming console for every type of gamer then so be it, don't like the rules they provide then don't use it. We don't need to read 100 posts from you stating how you disable your webcams and avoid google services in fear of being watched. This is MS's console, I for one like the options the Kinect brings, I also like not using disc's (I'm a steam man myself and using that model on the next xbox is fine by me), I like a feature packed OS and a OS that is fast, I like a controller that doesn't suck, though online I could careless about as I do all my online gaming on the PC but if I did have to play a console game online it would be with Xbox Live. Plus Xbox Live on the One will have fully dedicated servers, something sony will not have as a standard.

Also $ony has done 20x the shady things MS has done. MS has done same shady things as well, but so has Google.

I will be getting both, probably the Xbox One form day one, and the PS4 after it has been proven to sell decently. Don't want to risk getting a Vita console now.
I got my first 360 day one, and was more then happy I did. Broke 3 times over its life span but fixed by MS's 3 year warranty every time. I have a BC 60gb PS3 that is broken and sony wouldn't fix at all, YLOD. My 80GB BC PS3 works fine, and has been for years but my jasper xbox is quieter then it (when not using the disc drive that is). Will probably do the same this time, Xbox One is packed with features I like. I don't get used games 80% of the time and the few I do end up from ebay or craigslist, I won't even touch gamestop games.

Yeah, and I'll see that data has turned itself on...Unless they're using backdoors built into all versions of Android, CM and the like included. rolleyes.gif

The difference is I only need to connect my smartphone when I want to, and because of jailbreaking, rooting, etc I can tell if that kind of stuff is actually happening if I really wanted to...Can you tell if that data the Xbox One sent to MS is normal profile data or a stream of the mic? Is there a way to tell that the camera is turned on for sure? This kind of stuff I can be sure of on my smartphone, not so much on the much less open Xbox One...And I severely doubt that even if Google had put backdoors for the FBI, etc into Android that the community maintainers would keep those wide open. The Xbox One on the other hand is written and controlled by Microsoft alone. There's also a difference beyond everything I've said so far, 9 times out of 10 a Kinect will be pointed at your couch and maybe get a decent view of your entire living room and other areas of the house easily (eg. My house has the kitchen, dining room and loungeroom in the one large room, and you can clearly see the dining table from my Kinect on the TV) while 9 times out of 10...Your phone is going to be inside your pocket, or in my case flat on a table. So they can see a roof...Not me talking to my family, eating tea, etc (Getting changed if I had the XBOne in my bedroom, too.)

I may be one person, but I'd still get angry if the Government announced they wanted to put a camera and microphone in my house...Oh, I'm only one person! If I don't have anything to hide I shouldn't be worried about it! I don't give a crap about any of that, I'm still not going to add any set of eyes and ears that I cannot confirm isn't streaming back to someone else at any time. I also don't put much on Facebook, nor do I want to...Plus, Facebook is a separate company while the Kinect, Xbox One, etc is all in house for MS..There's advantages to that arrangement.

The difference with the PS4 Eye is that I can leave it unplugged except for the very rare times I actually use it...And the Wii controllers at least give a small sense of Force Feedback, there's nothing like the desync in movement caused by the lack of it in Kinect...As for Sony vs MS, it is definitely not a 20x difference...Have you heard of Wintel? That's the reason why an FX-8350 goes from competing with an i5 to competing with an i7 in Linux. What about AARD code? That was code to prevent Windows running on versions of DOS other than MS-DOS. What about the many issues with security that persisted for years in IE, possibly putting more users at risk, etc than Sony's CC snafu considering it lasted many years as opposed to being a one off, big thing? What about the massive holes in ActiveX and then Desktop Gadgets? I'd personally say that in between Windows and IE exploits alone, MS have put more users privacy at risk than Sony...Let alone everything else. Neither company should be trusted, and when either tells me they want to set up a camera in my living room without the option to unplug it and have it work (Remember, this is what the XBOne had at first and the reason this article and thread was posted no doubt) I'm going to tell them just where they can stick that camera.
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post #225 of 289
Warrant-less searches are now the norm. Google lost a landmark case with the FBI, and now they have to turn over data to them without search warrants. The same rule applies to Microsoft or any other company. The Kinect should be optional.
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post #226 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomlord52 View Post

Well, to be honest, has MS ever been found to actually be taking user data like other companies do? (Like that EA-Origin "bug").

Yes, the tech for doing so is definitely there, but then again, MS also has access to your laptop webcam + mic, since there is no hardware switch to turn it off...

Well, Windows OSes (since XP I believe) collect data but none of it can identify you.
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post #227 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Question: How many times are people going to have to tell you that the phone analogy doesn't work before you stop posting it? I swear I've had to say this 3 times but: It's different, it doesn't work...My phone? I can disable all connections permanently and still use most of the feature, hell, even if I just have a data connection off the only possible way to get anything would be by streaming the mic similar to how it would in a phone call. That's very different to what MS could do with the Kinect...You would generally have WiFi connected to it and a 1080p camera right there.
so you'd buy a smart phone to disable all of it's features? And how many times to I need to repeat that you can turn the Kinect off.....COMPLETELY
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post #228 of 289
This Kinnect thing reminds me when I was playing the xbox 360 and my girlfriend wanted to download a game she might like. She opted for UNO the kids/family card game. Well that was a mistake! we fired it up and all we got was guys on their cams relieving some tension for the fellow gamers online to see! I thought this might have sparked her to play more games with me but it didnt. smile.gif
post #229 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

so you'd buy a smart phone to disable all of it's features? And how many times to I need to repeat that you can turn the Kinect off.....COMPLETELY

All of its features? Really? Do you have any idea how little on a smartphone actually needs even the phone stuff? For example, gaming, note-taking, videos, camera, listen to music, watch videos, read videos, etc with it in Airplade Mode? (ie. No connection at all)
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post #230 of 289
Oh, goodyy. This thread.

M$: We're not spying on you.

YES YOU ARE, and YES YOU WILL CONTINUE TO. The only reason for this thing to have to have the Kinnect plugged in AND have to have it either phone home once a day or be always connected is because the microphone built into the Kinnect is listening for keywords that will be processed on the central servers specifically to tailor targeted advertising to that IP address. And if the NSA wants to dil in and use the camera/mic to spy on the person I guaranty there's a back door built in just for US intelligence.

A cell phone is an audio/visual bug that be dialed into remotely US intelligence without alerting the user. This was mandated in the US in the 90's with the Clinton Telecom bill and implemented almost ten years ago. Also it's a GPS beacon that can be used to triangulate your position to within a meter. And their favorite part is that YOU pay for it.

Your Facebook page is your own personal security dossier that you update for them. You provide all the data required to profile you. Google has admitted that they can guess your physical location based on your search history based on where exactly the data was sent.

The next generation of kitchen appliances will be internet/wifi enabled and always on. Expect RFID scanners in the refrigerator to detect that you just drank you last Coke(just an example) and send you and ad to remind you to buy more.

Bottom line, the ONLY WAY currently to have any privacy is not to own any telecommunications devices at all. That's going to become impossible soon as the major manufacturers make everything into a telecom device specifically so that you can't escape their inverted Panopticon.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [V2] Microsoft: "We Aren't Using Kinect To Snoop."