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[V2] Microsoft: "We Aren't Using Kinect To Snoop." - Page 29

post #281 of 289
Having to explain to people why their privacy is important is a first world problem nobody took for granted a few years ago. Yet, we're there. I wonder what the future will bring.

At the very least I would have expected more to be concerned about the lack of control. I for one don't like to relinquish control of stuff I OWN (that includes both hardware and software), nor do I like having to justify that to companies or other people.

The weakness for an always-on setup is not limited to the user's hardware or software. It's like with SimCity 5 -everyone was concerned about their network stability when they should have been concerned about EA's.

Saying Kinect only "listens" to the "Xbox on" command while offline is false. It actually listens for everything just as before, but only processes that command. If it's listening then it's listening and that's it.
post #282 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by XenoRad View Post

Having to explain to people why their privacy is important is a first world problem nobody took for granted a few years ago. Yet, we're there. I wonder what the future will bring.

At the very least I would have expected more to be concerned about the lack of control. I for one don't like to relinquish control of stuff I OWN (that includes both hardware and software), nor do I like having to justify that to companies or other people.

The weakness for an always-on setup is not limited to the user's hardware or software. It's like with SimCity 5 -everyone was concerned about their network stability when they should have been concerned about EA's.

Saying Kinect only "listens" to the "Xbox on" command while offline is false. It actually listens for everything just as before, but only processes that command. If it's listening then it's listening and that's it.

You can completely turn that feature off. But that won't convince you. I don't know what will. It's as off as your phone's camera is off when the screen isn't showing you the lens view.
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post #283 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

You can completely turn that feature off. But that won't convince you. I don't know what will. It's as off as your phone's camera is off when the screen isn't showing you the lens view.

It's a software switch, not a mechanical switch. Believe what you will.

Oh, remember when Microsoft accidentally removed the web browser ballot box from Windows 7 when they released SP1 ? Oops. You will now have a console that is constantly in a low power, connected state, software switches can be turned on remotely, even if "by accident" through an update or wilful play by either hackers and / or government agencies worldwide.
Edited by tpi2007 - 6/11/13 at 7:27am
 
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post #284 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

It's a software switch, not a mechanical switch. Believe what you will.

Oh, remember when Microsoft accidentally removed the browser ballot from Windows 7 when they released SP1 ? Oops. You will now have a console that is constantly in a low power, connected state, software switches can be turned on remotely, even if "by accident" through an update or wilful play by either hackers or government agencies worldwide.

let me guess, the Xbox One is the only thing vulnerable to this happening?
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post #285 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

let me guess, the Xbox One is the only thing vulnerable to this happening?

This line of though is along the line of: It's OK if the roof leaks in the bedroom, as it's already leaking in the living.
post #286 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

let me guess, the Xbox One is the only thing vulnerable to this happening?

Let me guess: you're finally being convinced that your privacy is not as safeguarded as you thought, but yet are still diverting a bit somewhere else by trying to find other examples where your privacy may also be already compromised according to the same criteria, so, why shouldn't you go all out and open the door of your house for the world to see ?

This is a matter of principle. I don't care if they promise a lot that they won't do it. For all we know they could be lying, and actually be required by law to be lying. All I care is if technically they or someone else can put you privacy at risk. Just the same way some people think that the guy who leaked the information on the spying did something wrong, think that lots of other employees can do something wrong, but in this case, actually taking personal advantage of their powers, for all but national security reasons.

And since you brought along the "inevitability because other companies already do it / have the potential to do it / for it do be done" argument, the PS4 doesn't come with a camera with built-in microphones, it's optional, and being optional, or course you don't have to have it plugged in for the console to work. Which is not the case with the Xbox One. Some laptops also have a built in lens cover for the webcam. Ideally they should also have a mechanical switch for the built in microphone. The same thing should happen with phones, unfortunately it doesn't, yet.

You can always unplug the Xbox from the mains, that's a trade-off you'll have to take. But even then that only safeguards your privacy while it's off. When it's on, you have to have Kinect plugged into the console for it to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenoRad View Post

This line of though is along the line of: It's OK if the roof leaks in the bedroom, as it's already leaking in the living.

Exactly.
Edited by tpi2007 - 6/11/13 at 7:47am
 
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post #287 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

let me guess, the Xbox One is the only thing vulnerable to this happening?

No, but the Xbox One is special in this regard.

Some one could hack my phone and see and hear me...but a majority of the time they will see the inside of my pocket and muffled speech. Plus they don't know if I will be on wifi or 3G/4G. Plus it is a crappy camera...the odds of it getting anything good is slim. Plus different Phone service providers will have different setups on the same phones...there are just a lot of variables and a high risk of low reward for exposing yourself to make the attack. Would you risk prison to get a choppy video with broken speech of pointless activities or even nothing?

Now enter the Xbox One...it will always be sitting in an area with a prime viewing angle. It will be connected to broadband Internet. It is an extremely high grade camera. You know people will be doing dumb stuff in front it...especially if they get some Kinect games that require you to flop around like a crazy fool. It will have an unchanging hardware and software config. That is just screaming "target me!" to the Internets.

People spend all their weekends just trying to hack security cameras to see pictures of people walking across a parking lot...you think they are going to leave this alone when they know they are almost guarantied to get something to satisfy their Lulz needs? The console is going to get attacked more than other device in history. If even a tiny percentage are successful...it will not be good. Plus this is assuming that it won't be spying on you under normal operation...which I believe will NOT be the case. I highly doubt MS or any government will use it in that manner, but I wouldn't rule it out...just consider it highly unlikely and not the number one concern.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 6/11/13 at 7:57am
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post #288 of 289
a discussion is about exchanging ideas. thing is these 2 people (i also identified another one, but he has not joined the discussion yet, probably not his shift right now) are just talking marketing propaganda.

i assume they work for these corporations. i mean no one in their sound mind would argue on behalf of corporations who are spying on people and now want to install remotely activated always online cameras in our living rooms.
thing is 70% of population are not bright enough to think on their own, so yeah they will get away with it. but honestly this forum is forum of mostly technical people or people who like to use their brains, so if they think they can influence us with their supposedly procorp funny comments like rest of the people, i mean come on.

dont worry corporations are people, psychopatic, but people nevertheless. xbox will sell for a year or two and then it will burn, because word has spread even among the not so technically savvy.

PS: i work for a multinational manufacturing corporation and first thing they taught me was that i am not paranoid but that i have talent for risk management. so i am not being paranoid, i am just making RM assessment smile.gif

best
revro
post #289 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by revro View Post

a discussion is about exchanging ideas. thing is these 2 people (i also identified another one, but he has not joined the discussion yet, probably not his shift right now) are just talking marketing propaganda.

i assume they work for these corporations. i mean no one in their sound mind would argue on behalf of corporations who are spying on people and now want to install remotely activated always online cameras in our living rooms.
thing is 70% of population are not bright enough to think on their own, so yeah they will get away with it. but honestly this forum is forum of mostly technical people or people who like to use their brains, so if they think they can influence us with their supposedly procorp funny comments like rest of the people, i mean come on.

dont worry corporations are people, psychopatic, but people nevertheless. xbox will sell for a year or two and then it will burn, because word has spread even among the not so technically savvy.

PS: i work for a multinational manufacturing corporation and first thing they taught me was that i am not paranoid but that i have talent for risk management. so i am not being paranoid, i am just making RM assessment smile.gif

best
revro
with that in mind, what's the rate of occurrence? Every day? Would they be focusing on you? Are you just one of millions? Is there a loss expectancy? If there's any data taken from the consoles, it doesn't need to be with kinect. It can just be the usual system logs that I'm sure most consoles and devices connected to the internet already have. That'd be unidentifiable and harmless.

Until that kinect is proven to be spying on us, everything here is just speculation.

I understand we're in different boats. I personally don't care enough as there's nothing incriminating enough about the device. But I will not sit back and be called naive as if I was being spoken down to as some idiot that does not value my rights.
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