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[Chiphel} New specs of Radeon HD8000 leaked - Page 37

post #361 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitePrQjser View Post

Ah! But is "smaller" necessarily better? I mean, I'm not at all impressed by the performance of Ivy or Haswell CPU's compared to my Sandy i5-2500k. But okay, might not be the same in this case smile.gif

Smaller is better, because then you can fit more logic in a given size and thermal envelope. That means more performance.

In CPUs it's harder to do because there we've reached a point where things don't scale very linearly -- you need a massive transistor count increase to improve performance by just 10% usually. However, in GPUs, whose workloads are entirely parallel, the MOAR COARS strategy works perfectly. And that's much easier. You can add a core and get nearly double the performance, or you can tweak your existing core design and be lucky to fit 20% with the same thermal requirements. Look at Steamroller; AMD's doubling up the entire front-end and is only seeing 20% performance gains. (I would try to figure out how much die space the front end should take, but I realized AMD's stupidly gigantic and stupidly slow L2 and L3 caches probably dwarf the size of the actual cores anyway). You can't really compare the two.

Look at the HD 6000 / GTX 500 generation; same 40nm process as last year, tiny ~20% performance gains. HD 5000 / GTX 400 generation? Both companies made massive improvements, matching the previous-generation dual-GPU. The generation before that? AMD actually BEAT their previous generation dual-GPU, and NVIDIA had large gains as well. What set those generations apart from the one that succeeded them? Process shrinks.
Edited by Usario - 5/31/13 at 4:33pm
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post #362 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Smaller is better, because then you can fit more logic in a given size and thermal envelope. That means more performance.

In CPUs it's harder to do because there we've reached a point where things don't scale very linearly -- you need a massive transistor count increase to improve performance by just 10% usually. However, in GPUs, whose workloads are entirely parallel, the MOAR COARS strategy works perfectly. And that's much easier. You can add a core and get nearly double the performance, or you can tweak your existing core design and be lucky to fit 20% with the same thermal requirements. You can't really compare the two.

Look at the HD 6000 / GTX 500 generation; same 40nm process as last year, tiny ~20% performance gains. HD 5000 / GTX 400 generation? Both companies made massive improvements, matching the previous-generation dual-GPU. The generation before that? AMD actually BEAT their previous generation dual-GPU, and NVIDIA had large gains as well. What set those generations apart from the one that succeeded them? Process shrinks.

That's why I was asking. I just didn't get why smaller should be better since CPUs have come to a stopping point right now - performance wise. But when you say you really can't compare the two, then it's another thing entirely. Could be awesome if we saw dual GPU cards as standard with 20 nm GPUs. You can dream, right? biggrin.gif
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post #363 of 465
hopefully we will see 20nm this year and a refresh with GDDR6 next year, we need extra bandwith for the 4k rez monitors so we can lough at "next gen console owners" man 1080p is so 2010.rolleyes.gif
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post #364 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitePrQjser View Post

That's why I was asking. I just didn't get why smaller should be better since CPUs have come to a stopping point right now - performance wise. But when you say you really can't compare the two, then it's another thing entirely. Could be awesome if we saw dual GPU cards as standard with 20 nm GPUs. You can dream, right? biggrin.gif

There's no need. You can keep upscaling GPU chips until you're getting around the 600mm^2 range, at that point you have to look at alternatives. And believe me, two 600mm^2 chips on an immature process on one card is not going to survive with air cooling... the 2x 520mm^2 GTX 590 had to be downclocked all the way down to 607MHz from the 580's 772MHz and faced problems with VRMs exploding due to the high power draw and NVIDIA's notably poor choice of VRMs. That was on a process that had been in use for a year and a half at the time, meaning it was very mature.

CPUs haven't come to a stopping point per se.

Intel is more focused on improving their IGP and reducing power consumption. In the server space they're still making significant gains, since the server market is heavily focused on TDP and die shrink = higher clock speeds at the same TDP, on top of the small IPC boost. The server space also appreciates more cores much more than the consumer space, and Intel's top-of-the-line 22nm Xeon E7 chips will feature 15 cores on the die. That's sure to make for a gigantic increase over the current Westmere-based 32nm E7 line, on top of the huge IPC and clock speed increases. Consumers in general (not OCN-type people) don't really need faster CPUs. What most consumers need is lower power consumption and heat (read: ultrabooks) and a better IGP. So Intel's consumer chips are more focused on that. As for the high-end desktop space (LGA 2011), I assume the fully-enabled 8-core SB-E die hasn't been released either because of inability to reach clock speed targets (the 8-core Xeon E5-2687W can only reach 3.1GHz and has a TDP of 150W) or simply a lack of competition. Hopefully Ivy-EP (10 cores) will have at least 8 cores enabled.

AMD on the other hand is promising >30% IPC improvements with Steamroller as well as improved multi-core scaling, which should put their next-generation 8-core in the realm of SB-E in multi-threaded workloads (though SB-E has more overclocking headroom and overall a far superior platform offering far, far more RAM and PCI-E bandwidth).
Edited by Usario - 5/31/13 at 5:07pm
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post #365 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

There's no need. You can keep upscaling GPU chips until you're getting around the 600mm^2 range, at that point you have to look at alternatives. And believe me, two 600mm^2 chips on an immature process on one card is not going to survive with air cooling.

CPUs haven't come to a stopping point per se. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Intel is more focused on improving their IGP and reducing power consumption. In the server space they're still making significant gains, since the server market is heavily focused on TDP and die shrink = higher clock speeds at the same TDP, on top of the small IPC boost. The server space also appreciates more cores much more than the consumer space, and Intel's top-of-the-line 22nm Xeon E7 chips will feature 15 cores on the die. That's sure to make for a gigantic increase over the current Westmere-based 32nm E7 line, on top of the huge IPC and clock speed increases. Consumers in general (not OCN-type people) don't really need faster CPUs. What most consumers need is lower power consumption and heat (read: ultrabooks) and a better IGP. So Intel's consumer chips are more focused on that. As for the high-end desktop space (LGA 2011), I assume either the fully-enabled 8-core SB-E die hasn't been released either because of inability to reach clock speed targets (the 8-core Xeon E5-2687W can only reach 3.1GHz and has a TDP of 150W) or simply a lack of competition. Hopefully Ivy-EP (10 cores) will have at least 8 cores enabled.

AMD on the other hand is promising >30% IPC improvements with Steamroller as well as improved multi-core scaling, which should put their next-generation 8-core in the realm of SB-E in multi-threaded workloads (though SB-E has more overclocking headroom and overall a far superior platform offering far, far more RAM and PCI-E bandwidth).
Well I may not be a true OCN type then wink.gif
I always prefered moar cores above single socket OC things I don't game much.
Nice to see some Brickland talk around here.
post #366 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokies83 View Post

I just tell it how i see it bro..

I hate Amd cpu's ive got a ton of Mod stick slaps for telling ppl they are no good.

I am a Fan of performance.... If something out performs something that is how im going to label it... Overclocking HD 7000 series unleashes a Monster of a card for very little money.. To the point you can buy 4 of them for the price of 1 Titan and Destory the titan... that is how i see it.

I tells it hows i sees it...

SAM_0891.JPG
SAM_0665.JPG
SAM_0820.JPG












Musta been older drivers? the new ones are pretty butter smooth....

And if u had issues with the early 13 xx you could roll back to the 12 xx and correct most issues.. the others have fixes on google search and using rad pro.

2 weeks ago I had stuttering issues with my 7970 setup and some tittles played terrible, so no... no butter smooth and the stuttering it's there still on my bro's 7950 xfire setup right now..... there is a reason amd is "working" on a driver fix, there is no point denying this fact. Im pretty sure they will fix it at the cost of some fps thumb.gif
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post #367 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha-Nocri View Post

Wait for 20nm GPU's

If the 8970 does turn out 35% faster than the 7970GE it would be around 45-50% faster than the 7950. Not a bad upgrade by any means. Though it remains to be seen what AMD is actually releasing in 2013.

If these specs end up being true it will drive 780 prices down as well. Waiting for VI might not be a bad idea though
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post #368 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by QSS-5 View Post

we need extra bandwith for the 4k rez monitors so we can lough at "next gen console owners"

We don't need 4K to laugh at "next gen console owners", the Xbox One is pretty much writing it's own jokes at this point..
Edited by Pheonix777z - 5/31/13 at 5:25pm
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post #369 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by undeadhunter View Post

2 weeks ago I had stuttering issues with my 7970 setup and some tittles played terrible, so no... no butter smooth and the stuttering it's there still on my bro's 7950 xfire setup right now..... there is a reason amd is "working" on a driver fix, there is no point denying this fact. Im pretty sure they will fix it at the cost of some fps thumb.gif

Ive got 3 systems with tri / quad fire.. And i have none of these issues with any of them.

Trouble shoot the issue....

The driver may be the cause of your issues.. may be a conflict somewhere else..

But there is always a fix.

Ive even got a system with a bunch of 7850s in it and have none of these issues.

Mostly what i hear is alot of people fix it with Radeon Pro. The only systems ive gamed on are the tri fire and the 2 7850 systems and never had the issue.

The other systems i have never gamed on.
Edited by Hokies83 - 5/31/13 at 5:33pm
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k 5.2ghz  GIGABYTE G1 Assassin Sniper 3 7950 with Alphacool block 7950 w/ Alphacool Block 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k 5.2ghz  GIGABYTE G1 Assassin Sniper 3 7950 with Alphacool block 7950 w/ Alphacool Block 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveCooling
7950 w/ Alphacool block G.SKILL Trident X 2500mhz 2x4gb SanDisk Extreme 240gb sata III 6gbs x5 SwiftTech Apongee Drive II 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Monsta 360 86mm thick rad X 4 MCP 35X Pump x2 400ML Frozen Q Fusion res x3 Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
CatLeap 2560x1440 + Acer hn274h bmiiid 120hz 3D Logitech G19 Corsair Ax1200 watts  Mountain Mods Ascension 
MouseAudio
Logitech M570 Pioneer SP-BS21 Bookshelf Loudspeakers + Lepai Amp 
  hide details  
Reply
post #370 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokies83 View Post

Ive got 3 systems with tri / quad fire.. And i have none of these issues with any of them.

Trouble shoot the issue....

The driver may be the cause of your issues.. may be a conflict somewhere else..

But there is always a fix.

Ive even got a system with a bunch of 7850s in it and have none of these issues.

Mostly what i hear is alot of people fix it with Radeon Pro. The only systems ive gamed on are the tri fire and the 2 7850 systems and never had the issue.

The other systems i have never gamed on.
That is because some people don't notice it I myself have kinda lame eyes I guess cause I can play a game as long as it runs at native speed even thought he fps is down to 30-40.
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