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[Yahoo!] Chinese hackers breach key US weapons designs - Page 8

post #71 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Which world do you live in?

The US has at least 50 thousand hackers on its payroll, divided in several devisions all hacking different sections of different countries. The US has the largest hacker army in the world but there's a media blackout on this because the US just doesn't do something like this, being the freest and most democratically country in the world rolleyes.gif

The NSA, CIA and other branches of the 'intelligence community' in the US have been highly engaged in corporate espionage for decades. The accusations aimed at China are part of the 'pivot' and the aggressive posturing aimed at China.
General Curtis Lemay on Korea:

In Hollywood fantasy land China will attack the US but in reality the worlds most aggressive and lawless nation is the US and its lackeys in the North Atlantic Terror Organisation.
Ahhh... I live in reality.... US Cyber Command is hiring a few thousand as of this year and will have a hard time getting the best-of-the-best for these jobs.

Futhermore, the US government will have a hard time competing with the private sector for the highly skilled people that are qualified for these jobs.

Where are a lot of the best-of-the-best mathmaticians, physicists, CompSci, EE, etc going? Finance and tech companiese. Can the government compete with $80-150K starting salaries for people coming out of college?
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post #72 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Ahhh... I live in reality.... US Cyber Command is hiring a few thousand as of this year and will have a hard time getting the best-of-the-best for these jobs.

Futhermore, the US government will have a hard time competing with the private sector for the highly skilled people that are qualified for these jobs.

Where are a lot of the best-of-the-best mathmaticians, physicists, CompSci, EE, etc going? Finance and tech companiese. Can the government compete with $80-150K starting salaries for people coming out of college?

Of course not, but the government doesn't need these people either. These geniuses need to go to private industries to develop and build new systems. The Government buys the systems and employees personal to run them.
The government can't develop new technology at a level that could ever compete with the private industry. Now, that isn't to say the government doesn't hide them in their back pocket.
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post #73 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

Of course not, but the government doesn't need these people either. These geniuses need to go to private industries to develop and build new systems. The Government buys the systems and employees personal to run them.
The government can't develop new technology at a level that could ever compete with the private industry. Now, that isn't to say the government doesn't hide them in their back pocket.
I was responding mainly to Liranan's points.

To address your points...
1) The government does require these people.... who else is going to advise and lead?
2) These geniuses do not always provide system that benefit society. See "HFT" or "Wall Street brain drain".
3) Most of these systems are not suited for government use.
4) The government should not compete with private industry if there is a thriving market. However, the government should interven if there is no thriving market or it is for public good.

Honestly, there needs to be better and more comprensive legislation of information security (good luck since many legislators do not even understand the Internet). There also most be more coordination among the private sector companies. Look at all the recent security hacks....Sony storing customer data in plaintext, Comcast exposing customer info through an webpage based on Apple ID, passwords hashed with only MD5. Futhermore, SAs really really really need to be force to maintain updated systems. SCADA systems should be air-gapped and these convience backdoors closed. I mean half these reports of systems being hacked.... did anyone do any due dilgence on these systems!?

The world isn't black and white but full of subtleties and context.
Edited by DuckieHo - 5/29/13 at 9:01am
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post #74 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

I was responding mainly to Liranan's points.

To address your points...
1) The government does require these people.... who else is going to advise and lead?
2) These geniuses do not always provide system that benefit society. See "HFT" or "Wall Street brain drain".
3) Most of these systems are not suited for government use.
4) The government should not compete with private industry if there is a thriving market. However, the government should interven if there is no thriving market or it is for public good.

Honestly, there needs to be better and more comprensive legislation of information security (good luck since many legislators do not even understand the Internet). There also most be more coordination among the private sector companies. Futhermore, SAs really really really need to be force to maintain updated systems. SCADA systems should be air-gapped and these convience backdoors closed.

The world isn't black and white but full of subtleties and context.

I do agree with you.

The government does compete though for employees. The government is an excellent way to advance and learn but once you hit the highest pay grade you either have to wait for the top to retire or go private industry. The government only can research systems which are politically attractive and don't have the resources to experiment like private industry can. So you get companies contracted to solve a problem, which then the government adopts the product if it is successful.
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post #75 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

I do agree with you.

The government does compete though for employees. The government is an excellent way to advance and learn but once you hit the highest pay grade you either have to wait for the top to retire or go private industry. The government only can research systems which are politically attractive and don't have the resources to experiment like private industry can. So you get companies contracted to solve a problem, which then the government adopts the product if it is successful.

Some of the positions do require clearence and without getting it through military background.... it's too expensive and/or hard for a civilian to get the clearence.

The other issue is that the government is big machine... it take time for training and change.


For example in 2011, the FBI rotated their agents from office to office every 3 years. To train someone in cyber-security from scratch, it probably takes a year alone. To get someone good at cyber-security, they already need the background in computers or a few years. Cyber-security is not something that can easily be taught from static manuals. New attack techniques and exploits are discovered constantly. People need to be motivated already to read these white papers to become informed and that's not something you can just ask anyone to do.

http://www.dailytech.com/US+Govt+Study+Over+a+Third+of+FBI+CyberCrime+Agents+are+Incompetent/article21490.htm
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post #76 of 106
Here is my angle on this..... less than 2 weeks with a working quantum computer, and china has already broken the USA's best encryption.
5/15/13 Chinese physicists create first single-photon quantum memory.
5/16/13 Google teams up with NASA on quantum computing lab.
lets see, who robbed who first?
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post #77 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by HK_47 View Post

Here is my angle on this..... less than 2 weeks with a working quantum computer, and china has already broken the USA's best encryption.
5/15/13 Chinese physicists create first single-photon quantum memory.
5/16/13 Google teams up with NASA on quantum computing lab.
lets see, who robbed who first?
What are you talking about? Who has a working mulit-qubit general-purpose quantum computer?

No one has broken the world wide standard of AES or newer ciphers like bcrypt or scrypt.

Quatum memory is not a quantum computer.

D-Wave's quantum annealing system has been in production for years.

There are dozens/hundreds of other on-going quantum computing research projects around the world....
Edited by DuckieHo - 5/29/13 at 9:25am
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post #78 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Some of the positions do require clearence and without getting it through military background.... it's too expensive and/or hard for a civilian to get the clearence.
The other issue is that the government is big machine... it take time for training and change.

For example in 2011, the FBI rotated their agents from office to office every 3 years. To train someone in cyber-security from scratch, it probably takes a year alone. To get someone good at cyber-security, they already need the background in computers or a few years. Cyber-security is not something that can easily be taught from static manuals. New attack techniques and exploits are discovered constantly. People need to be motivated already to read these white papers to become informed and that's not something you can just ask anyone to do.
http://www.dailytech.com/US+Govt+Study+Over+a+Third+of+FBI+CyberCrime+Agents+are+Incompetent/article21490.htm

Yikes! I knew the FBI rotated agents to broaden their skills, but I didn't know they completely moved them out of a long term learning position. Thought they would move them around within that field.
CIA I guess is a bit better with that, some agents spend their whole lives on a single mission.

Government is indeed a big machine.
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post #79 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Some of the positions do require clearence and without getting it through military background.... it's too expensive and/or hard for a civilian to get the clearence.


This is incorrect. It is very easy for a civilian to get a clearance through a government contractor with no military background. It also doesn't cost the private company anything. The money required to get a clearance comes from the government funding of the agency that does the paperwork and investigation.
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post #80 of 106
We act is if the US is not involved in any cyber attacks themselves....

Stuxnet anyone? That one was actually lethal to people.

Crocodile tears are a bit much.
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