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[xbitlabs] AMD Will Receive $60 - $100 for Every SoC for Next-Gen Game Consoles - Financial Analysts. - Page 12

post #111 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Source. Now. This is important.

While I don't have a source it seems probable, I mean it wouldn't be hard to make one (Especially since a good one already exists) that would run on the PS4.

PCSX2 is hardly all that good in the grand scheme of things. And the level of CPU needed to get the job done...

Sony tried this already. It actually turned out to be easier to just put the old chips on the board then to emulate the EE. Even if we do call PCS2X good, then there's the other aspect to consider, which is that it's horribly threaded. That alone knocks out the possibility, because if you need high-clocked i5 level performance, a tiny Jaguar core isn't going to be able to do it.

If they found a way, great. If they've been working on it in the background for a while and want to hand it out with the PS4 this time, great. But current hardware says it'll be a serious pain.
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post #112 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

What's wrong with a proprietary?

Everything. When you start compiling stuff on your own and you're seeing things end up being 60% to 125% faster than the precompiled versions in Windows, and your numbers don't match up with people running binary distributions of Linux, it leaves you asking a lot of questions like "how much faster could this really go if it was compiled right?" And it leaves you in a position where you can't do anything about it, because it's proprietary.

There's no reason why a CISC ecosystem should be seeing programs make over 60% performance gains just from recompiling. That's enough to put a stock FX 8350 ahead of an Intel IB turbing to 3.9ghz. But it happens and it's a sad fact we have to live with.

The entire point of CISC is performance through instructions, and there are certain entities who want to hold back the entire idea of CISC to either make more money or to hamper competition. The way Intel and proprietary software is ran in the x86 Windows ecosystem is absolutely appalling and Intel behaves a lot more like a RISC CPU maker than CISC.

Cutting out instructions on lower end models, disabling instructions on unlocked models, cheating in compilers, cheating in benchmarks, sabotaging your competition. It's all horrible, horrible things and if we lived in a world where people could compile every piece of software on their rig, and then distribute it (like I would package a Linux distritbution with bdver2 cflags that only ran on Piledriver for the people who can't or don't want to install on their own), and it would benefit everyone greatly. The entire point of x86 is to gain performance by introducing new instructions. Intel and proprietary software vendors are holding us back so much, that we end up with games like Skyrim using x87 instructions instead of SSE, when Intel has been telling people to not use x87 for 10 years! I realize that's not Intel's fault but it is their fault for not making all instructions and features available across their entire new product line, which leaves software developers having to hold back from compiling with those instructions.

To be totally honest the idea of packing up my stage 4 gentoo tarball and giving it away has crossed my mind several times, but the tarball is at about 20GB because it has a lot of cruft left over, and there are still programs that require gcc 4.6 with bdver cflag, and that would be rather difficult for people who are not in the know to fix.

Sorry for the rant, after seeing what Gentoo did for my FX 8350 I've grown quite unhappy with the state of Windows and Intel and lazy software devs who won't even let you fix their own broken products.
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post #113 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

PCSX2 is hardly all that good in the grand scheme of things. And the level of CPU needed to get the job done...

Sony tried this already. It actually turned out to be easier to just put the old chips on the board then to emulate the EE. Even if we do call PCS2X good, then there's the other aspect to consider, which is that it's horribly threaded. That alone knocks out the possibility, because if you need high-clocked i5 level performance, a tiny Jaguar core isn't going to be able to do it.

If they found a way, great. If they've been working on it in the background for a while and want to hand it out with the PS4 this time, great. But current hardware says it'll be a serious pain.

You don't "need" a high clocked i5, a Phenom II is fine for most games...And Sony have access to every bit of information about the PS2, emulator developers don't necessarily have the information or experience of Sony.
    
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post #114 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampirr View Post

At least PlayStation 4 can emulate PS1/PS2 games biggrin.gif

Please acknowledge the difference between fact, rumor, and your own fantasy.
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post #115 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Everything. When you start compiling stuff on your own and you're seeing things end up being 60% to 125% faster than the precompiled versions in Windows, and your numbers don't match up with people running binary distributions of Linux, it leaves you asking a lot of questions like "how much faster could this really go if it was compiled right?" And it leaves you in a position where you can't do anything about it, because it's proprietary.

There's no reason why a CISC ecosystem should be seeing programs make over 60% performance gains just from recompiling. That's enough to put a stock FX 8350 ahead of an Intel IB turbing to 3.9ghz. But it happens and it's a sad fact we have to live with.

The entire point of CISC is performance through instructions, and there are certain entities who want to hold back the entire idea of CISC to either make more money or to hamper competition. The way Intel and proprietary software is ran in the x86 Windows ecosystem is absolutely appalling and Intel behaves a lot more like a RISC CPU maker than CISC.

Cutting out instructions on lower end models, disabling instructions on unlocked models, cheating in compilers, cheating in benchmarks, sabotaging your competition. It's all horrible, horrible things and if we lived in a world where people could compile every piece of software on their rig, and then distribute it (like I would package a Linux distritbution with bdver2 cflags that only ran on Piledriver for the people who can't or don't want to install on their own), and it would benefit everyone greatly. The entire point of x86 is to gain performance by introducing new instructions. Intel and proprietary software vendors are holding us back so much, that we end up with games like Skyrim using x87 instructions instead of SSE, when Intel has been telling people to not use x87 for 10 years! I realize that's not Intel's fault but it is their fault for not making all instructions and features available across their entire new product line, which leaves software developers having to hold back from compiling with those instructions.

To be totally honest the idea of packing up my stage 4 gentoo tarball and giving it away has crossed my mind several times, but the tarball is at about 20GB because it has a lot of cruft left over, and there are still programs that require gcc 4.6 with bdver cflag, and that would be rather difficult for people who are not in the know to fix.

Sorry for the rant, after seeing what Gentoo did for my FX 8350 I've grown quite unhappy with the state of Windows and Intel and lazy software devs who won't even let you fix their own broken products.

Oh I understand the advantages of open source.... I am one of the big propenents of it at my company.


However, proprietary software absolutely has its place as well..... very niche products, support intensive products, tightly controlled software, etc.
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post #116 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booty Warrior View Post

Yup. If what Nvidia's execs said is true, the actual profit margins on these will be extremely slim.
For them, it would be, because the only in-house CPU technology they have is with ARM, and ARM doesn't have enough power to get the job done in a console. They couldn't have done what AMD did, because they don't have x86 CPU tech in-house, and Intel couldn't have done it, either, because their GPU technology is anemic compared to AMD's. Unless Intel and Nvidia had been willing to collaborate, and they're not, they couldn't have provided a comparable part, and they wouldn't have made much if any money. AMD already had the technology available--they've had 7850-class GPU's and Jaguar cores for quite some time now, and all they had to do was mate the two into an APU.

No one else could have provided one-stop shopping for Microsoft and Sony. VIA has x86 and graphics tech in-house, but it's nowhere near fast enough on either count. IBM could provide a POWER architecture CPU that would be fast enough, but they don't have graphics, so they'd have to work with AMD or Nvidia.
     
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post #117 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyph3r View Post

Revenue, not profit. After R&D, manufacture, shipping etc, that 60-100 could be next to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

While they are in dire need of profits I think it would benefit them even if they would be just exactly break even with this. They can push the "moar cores" and HSA with this thing in the next gen consoles which will, probably, benefit them more on the long run that the badly needed little profit. assuming they live long enough to get their HSA vision fully functional.
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post #118 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

PCSX2 is hardly all that good in the grand scheme of things. And the level of CPU needed to get the job done...

Sony tried this already. It actually turned out to be easier to just put the old chips on the board then to emulate the EE. Even if we do call PCS2X good, then there's the other aspect to consider, which is that it's horribly threaded. That alone knocks out the possibility, because if you need high-clocked i5 level performance, a tiny Jaguar core isn't going to be able to do it.

If they found a way, great. If they've been working on it in the background for a while and want to hand it out with the PS4 this time, great. But current hardware says it'll be a serious pain.

You don't "need" a high clocked i5, a Phenom II is fine for most games...And Sony have access to every bit of information about the PS2, emulator developers don't necessarily have the information or experience of Sony.

You have obviously never in your life actually played a PS2 game that truly utilized the EE of the PS2...

And no I don't mean Shadow of the colossus, I mean any R&C game ever made, which used proprietary texture formats, thus screwing up everything unless you use software mode, and the EE fully, meaning even a 5Ghz 3770k can't play any of them cleanly at any resolution.

But ya, go on dreaming that a Jaguar chip is good enough to emulate PS2 for more then RockBand or DDR.
Edited by KyadCK - 5/31/13 at 9:20am
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post #119 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You have obviously never in your life actually played a PS2 game that truly utilized the EE of the PS2...

And no I don't mean Shadow of the colossus, I mean any R&C game ever made, which used proprietary texture formats, thus screwing up everything unless you use software mode, and the EE fully, meaning even a 5Ghz 3770k can't play any of them cleanly at any resolution.

But ya, go on dreaming that a Jaguar chip is good enough to emulate PS2 for more then RockBand or DDR.

Sony has more resources than the developers of PCSx2, my point with that is they have a base they can use to start with which has most of the games working, then for those few with big incompatibility issues they can work on and fix.
Hell, release it with a PS2 emulator that gets most of the games working with playable FPS (Which the PS4 could do) and just rerelease the ones that don't work in HD like they did with a bunch of games on the 360 and PS3...Most games would work fine emulated on the PS4.
    
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post #120 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampirr View Post

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20130528222526_AMD_Will_Receive_60_100_for_Every_SoC_for_Next_Gen_Game_Consoles.html

Original source:
http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2013/05/22/amd-jefferies-raymond-james-like-ps4-xbox-prospects-even-on-muted-uptake/?mod=BOLBlog

Lets say PlayStation 4 in whole life span is for exsample another 5 years and sells 70M units like its predecessor while AMD gets 90$ per chip, how is much that?

6.4 Billion US Dollars of revenue at best...

That is only the PlayStation 4!

mind you, your saying that assuming that the consoles will keep their worth for the next couple of year - eventually they are going to depreciate in price, and that's when AMD will begin to make less of a profit
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