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Why no mega GPU on same unit as CPU

post #1 of 28
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I know nothing about processor engineering, and I don't get why it's such a painful struggle to get good graphics on a CPU - why can't they just make one humungous chip with a combined CPU and full powered GPU instead of all these painfully slow little upgrades to IGP that are taking forever to get anywhere ?
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post #2 of 28
There's a bunch of reasons for this

1) The chips would cost too much

2) You'll start hitting the practical (and maybe theoretical after that) limit of how big current semiconductor chips can be. It's in the 750mm^2 range. Intel larrabee is the biggest chip ever made afaik, around 600-700mm^2 estimated. Top of the range GPUs on the other hand from the Nvidia side are in the 500-600mm^2 range

3) You'll get horrible yields and most of the chips you manufacture will come out defective increasing the cost to impractical levels

4) You can fit a much smaller amount of chips on a wafer, increasing the cost

5) conventional cooling solutions wouldn't be able to handle a chip with a full high end GPU and a CPU

6) You would not be able to clock it high enough for it to compete with other parts

7) it would draw an unimaginable amount of power

and so on. Just utterly impractical if not impossible.
Edited by Alatar - 5/30/13 at 2:42am
 
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post #3 of 28
Thread Starter 
Then why don't they just put two seperate chips under the same hood ? Doesn't all have to be on one die, I would have thought. A nice big power socket, good big cooler, strong power circuitry - have an i7 with a Kepler in one - it would be good. But ok, I'm no engineer.

Also, why don't Intel make monster graphics chips when they have all that semiconductor expertise ? Why the piddly widdly little IGPs on all their hardware ? Is it a matter of intellectual property - nvidia and AMD have all the patents ?
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post #4 of 28
Because then nvidia couldn't charge you $1000 for gpu.
post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 
And why not have sockets on the motherboard to stick the GPU in rather than dirty great big cards ?
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post #6 of 28
why not something we can plug directly into our brain, the most powerful computer on earth?
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post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbiscuit View Post

Then why don't they just put two seperate chips under the same hood ? Doesn't all have to be on one die, I would have thought. A nice big power socket, good big cooler, strong power circuitry - have an i7 with a Kepler in one - it would be good. But ok, I'm no engineer.

Again it's about cost. Those massive power deliver systems and the extremely complex socket that would be needed would be really expensive. Memory requirements are another thing. Can't feed a high end GPU with DDR3.

That and intel and Nvidia hate each other. AMD is the closest you'll get to having a chip like this.
Quote:
Also, why don't Intel make monster graphics chips when they have all that semiconductor expertise ? Why the piddly widdly little IGPs on all their hardware ? Is it a matter of intellectual property - nvidia and AMD have all the patents ?

Intel did try with larrabee, it just ended up flopping and then evolving to the Xeon Phi of today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbiscuit View Post

And why not have sockets on the motherboard to stick the GPU in rather than dirty great big cards ?

Too expensive, not enough room for power deliver, compatibility would be extremely poor.
 
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post #8 of 28
I see no reason for this to happen.. the only feasible use would be an htpc, but you dont need a whole lotta gpu power for that.. and also even if you did want it, im sure a dedicated video card would be more prefferable.

Id not be very happy if i had to start buying cpu+gpu together no mattrr wha im upgrading
post #9 of 28
Thread Starter 
Find it hard to believe it wouldn't be more economical to have circuitry built in to a motherboard than have a whopping 13" card stuck in a slot, look how little room graphics chips have taken onboard over the years, looking at any board with an IGP it doen't really seem to take much room. I mean, looking at my m4n68 board, I don't see why that onboard GPU couldn't have been a full size 9800GTX chip and make the mother board a couple of inches wider to accomodate it, with one manufacturing process instead of two separate ones for saving on costs.

Consoles do it don't they ? Why not just have it like a console board but with an upgradable socket for GPU's - there are already dual CPU socket boards so we know that's not too hard to do.

Still I suppose AMD APU are catching up a bit.
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The Watt Gobbler
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post #10 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbiscuit View Post

Find it hard to believe it wouldn't be more economical to have circuitry built in to a motherboard than have a whopping 13" card stuck in a slot, look how little room graphics chips have taken onboard over the years, looking at any board with an IGP it doen't really seem to take much room. I mean, looking at my m4n68 board, I don't see why that onboard GPU couldn't have been a full size 9800GTX chip and make the mother board a couple of inches wider to accomodate it, with one manufacturing process instead of two separate ones for saving on costs.

Consoles do it don't they ? Why not just have it like a console board but with an upgradable socket for GPU's - there are already dual CPU socket boards so we know that's not too hard to do.

Still I suppose AMD APU are catching up a bit.

Well dont forget about technology advancement.. just cause an apu today could perform at about 9800 speeds doesnt mean they could achive that when the 9800 was king.

To put a upper scale gpu onboard would mean extending the board, not just a little. Look at the coolers on these cards.. they spread across the whole pcb. That would not be easy to work with.
Frankly i think the idea of an enthusiast gpu onboard is just silly.. its doable but its not going to be pretty, cost efficiant, easy and the demand is low..
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