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post #11 of 28
I suppose the custom APUs used in the PS4 (and the Xbox One) are the closest we've gotten to what you'rve proposed, which have a GPU roughly equivalent to the 7850.

I guess the reason high end GPUs are not part of the motherboard is development cost and compatibility. IIRC, Intel and nvidia make most of their revenue on enterprise grade hardware, and not on consumer products. On top of that, gaming hardware is a very small section of the PC market, and the sort of solution you've suggested won't sell enough to make back the development cost. Consoles on the other hand, are all configured in exactly the same way, so development is easier with less variation in each system.

As Alatar mentioned, the different requirements for things like power regulation/delivery, which can be seen from the varying PCB sizes of graphics cards, would be very difficult to account for, and may lead resources being wasted (e.g. using low end GPU with power circuitry designed for a much higher end card), or more SKUs of each motherboard being needed.
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post #12 of 28
Thread Starter 
True the board would be extended, but you could elimintate PCI-E x 16 slots and save a lot of space. For a triple SLI board that's a lot of space saving if you could put GPU sockets in a row. An extreme system with 3 double GPU cards would be hard to replace on a horizontal level - but not many people have those I think.
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post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noupoi View Post

On top of that, gaming hardware is a very small section of the PC market, and the sort of solution you've suggested won't sell enough to make back the development cost.
That's the biggest reason. AMD could develop a combo of say, an FX-4300 and a 7970 if they wanted to and chose to spend the R&D money to develop it, but they don't because there's just not that much of a market, relatively speaking, for such a thing. Most computer users aren't gamers or hardware enthusiasts, and for them, the regular APU's that they make, or Intel's integrated graphics on their CPU's, are good enough.

The only reason AMD developed the octo-core/7850 APU for the consoles is because they know they can recoup they money they invested in developing that part. Sony and Microsoft will buy millions of those for their own use, and AMD will recover the cost of development and then some, not to mention the added benefit of having future games developed on AMD hardware first. They never would have produced just as a part for end-users.
     
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post #14 of 28
Thread Starter 
A 7850 APU ? That's pretty beefy, will that make it to desktop market ? I just got a FM2 board, are we likely to see something like that for it ?
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post #15 of 28
First off, PCIe is a STANDARD slot. Making things STANDARD is cheaper then designing a specialized socket for stuff.

Second, a CPU is not simply a tiny little chip. It's a tiny little chip + a massive heatsink. Just like how a GPU is a tiny little chip + a massive heatsink.

So if you wanted a GPU socket (and let's not forget GDDR? That's also on the board), you'd need a motherboard with the GPU socket, additional power ports on the mobo for the GPU (kind of like how there's that power port for the CPU), slots for GDDR, and you'd still need to install a massive heatsink for the GPU.

So instead of 1 massive card, you'd have a bunch of crap with a massive heatsink on top of it. And it'd be more of a pain in the ass to put together, and it'd probably cost more.

This is kind of like asking why do we have 4 core processors, instead of just a single core processor running at 20ghz. Billions of dollars in R&D have been put into the tech we have now.
Edited by demoship - 5/30/13 at 4:51pm
post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by demoship View Post

First off, PCIe is a STANDARD slot. Making things STANDARD is cheaper then designing a specialized socket for stuff.

Second, a CPU is not simply a tiny little chip. It's a tiny little chip + a massive heatsink. Just like how a GPU is a tiny little chip + a massive heatsink.

So if you wanted a GPU socket (and let's not forget GDDR? That's also on the board), you'd need a motherboard with the GPU socket, additional power ports on the mobo for the GPU (kind of like how there's that power port for the CPU), slots for GDDR, and you'd still need to install a massive heatsink for the GPU.

So instead of 1 massive card, you'd have a bunch of crap with a massive heatsink on top of it. And it'd be more of a pain in the ass to put together, and it'd probably cost more.

This is kind of like asking why do we have 4 core processors, instead of just a single core processor running at 20ghz. Billions of dollars in R&D have been put into the tech we have now.

i second this.

Speaking of standard, what is being suggested is complete customization. For instance amd and nvidia are different companies, they design their hardware different from eachother, but they are able to switch between intel and amd platforms because of the PCIE standard.

now if the GPU die was made to be swappable, it would have a socket similiar to cpus. And like the competing comapnies (intel and amd), they would also likely have seperate sockets.. basicly eliminating the interchangeability aspect.
also, it takes different things to power different level teirs of GPU. you dont need 300 watts of power for a 7770, but you would for a 7950 or similiar, so by default the board would need to be able to supply that power if needed, making a potential 7770 setup cost more due to A) customization of non standard pcb, and b) unnessisary cost to manufacture VRMs capable of handling whatever you throw at it.



basicly its completely impractical.. wait 5 years or so to see if the iGPU market goes anywhere special (but by then we will have dedicated cards that beat out 2x titans im sure rolleyes.gif )
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaFox View Post

i second this.

Speaking of standard, what is being suggested is complete customization. For instance amd and nvidia are different companies, they design their hardware different from eachother, but they are able to switch between intel and amd platforms because of the PCIE standard.

now if the GPU die was made to be swappable, it would have a socket similiar to cpus. And like the competing comapnies (intel and amd), they would also likely have seperate sockets.. basicly eliminating the interchangeability aspect.
also, it takes different things to power different level teirs of GPU. you dont need 300 watts of power for a 7770, but you would for a 7950 or similiar, so by default the board would need to be able to supply that power if needed, making a potential 7770 setup cost more due to A) customization of non standard pcb, and b) unnessisary cost to manufacture VRMs capable of handling whatever you throw at it.



basicly its completely impractical.. wait 5 years or so to see if the iGPU market goes anywhere special (but by then we will have dedicated cards that beat out 2x titans im sure rolleyes.gif )

Not to mention, having the GPU on a dedicated PCB makes it so you don't need to worry about keeping things backwards/forwards compatible. That's why intel changes sockets every time there's a new line, because it's too much work (and it'd probably impact performance) to make chipsets backwards compatible. When the GPU has it's own PCB, they can change the # of pins on the BGA, change any number of other things and just make the interface conform to the PCIe standard and it's good to go.

Otherwise, you'd need a different motherboard if you wanted a GX104 GPU vs a GX110 GPU (I don't know the architecture but I'd be willing to bet that the socket/chipsets they have for those 2 GPUs are not compatible with each other at all). That would be absolutely retarded and would defeat the purpose of making PC components modular.

What OP is suggesting is more like a proprietary laptop build, where you're seeing more and more things like the RAM being soldered onto the motherboard to reduce costs. The DIY market will not go that route until a machine to solder a BGA chip onto a PCB becomes available to the general public at a low cost, which I doubt is ever going to happen.
post #18 of 28
Thread Starter 
A good point - why don't we have CPU's slotting into motherboards like we have GPU's ? Swap out you Intel for an AMD, that would be handy.

And rather than having to have radically different sockets for every new generation of GPU, why not just allow it to have redundant pins if needed ? Why can there not be a standard socket that fits all GPU's ?
Edited by dogbiscuit - 5/30/13 at 9:27pm
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post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbiscuit View Post

A good point - why don't we have CPU's slotting into motherboards like we have GPU's ? Swap out you Intel for an AMD, that would be handy.

Both CPUs handle things different from one another and also have proprietary ways of interacting with other modules. At least that is my guess.

Also, not to mention the fact AMD and Intel CPUs are different architectures all together, thus they cannot be used with the same PCH or NB/SB.
 
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post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbiscuit View Post

A good point - why don't we have CPU's slotting into motherboards like we have GPU's ? Swap out you Intel for an AMD, that would be handy.
We did, at least with just Intel CPUs; there may have been slot-type AMD CPUs at one point but I'm not entirely sure. They obviously weren't interchangeable, either, if there were slot-type AMD CPUs. I imagine there was a good reason that they stopped doing that... personally I'd assume it's unreasonable to use a tower cooler on a CPU card. tongue.gif
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