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Physx cards still at all relevant? - Page 2

post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei86 View Post

If your main GPU is say a GTX 780 at 1300Mhz and your PhysX GPU a GTX 260 216.

The GTX 780 will spit out images faster and render crap way before the 260 has a chance to calculate the PhsyX. In doing so the GTX 780 will slow down to the level of the 260. That's how I understand it in the simplest terms.

In doing so you're hindering the 780 that could do all that and calculate faster than having the 260 which is holding it back. So yes sometimes its better off letting the cards do all the work than adding a PPU.

Usually a nice rule of thumb is to pair with the latest two generations back. In this case a 500 series.
Makes sense, never thought of it that way.
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post #12 of 21
^ Exactly.

Your only as fast as the slowest link. ...or something like that.
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post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei86 View Post

If your main GPU is say a GTX 780 at 1300Mhz and your PhysX GPU a GTX 260 216.

The GTX 780 will spit out images faster and render crap way before the 260 has a chance to calculate the PhsyX. In doing so the GTX 780 will slow down to the level of the 260. That's how I understand it in the simplest terms.

In doing so you're hindering the 780 that could do all that and calculate faster than having the 260 which is holding it back. So yes sometimes its better off letting the cards do all the work than adding a PPU.

Usually a nice rule of thumb is to pair with the latest two generations back. In this case a 500 series.

Concept is right, but the variables are all wrong.

A the 700 series isn't significantly different than the 600 series (780 is an exception), and the 500 isn't significantly different than a 400. Both of those generations are refreshes, which offer better performance/power/heat ratios, but don't do much in terms of overall power.

300 series didn't even exist outside of a few low end 200 rebrands for OEMs.

That effectively puts a proper 200 series 2 generations behind a proper 700 series.

Now, if you are talking about anything below a 250, it isn't really a 200 series card, but really a rebrand and update of the 8000 series. The 780 as mentioned above isn't really a 700 at all and is more a cut down titan. There are similar exceptions for all the series in between as well.

In this particular case, the 280 is at the top end of the true 200 series, and would be perfectly capable as a physx card at keeping up with any true 600 or 700 series card. I wouldn't personally suggest it, as it is highly inefficient by today's standards, but if your PSU and case cooling can handle it, you already own the card, you have enough pci slots, and you don't mind the extra noise, then it is a perfectly viable option.

The 780 being a cut down titan however might give it enough of an advantage in some games that a 280 could hold it back, if you are playing at a low resolution. Why anyone would buy a 780 or titan for low resolution however is a total mystery.

Remember, a moving up a generation doesn't make a card more powerful automatically. A 280 is still far more powerful than a 450. In fact, it has nearly identical performance to a 560, heat and energy aside. A 560 is only two generations behind a 780. In case it isn't obvious yet, an even more exaggerated case would be the 610, which is actually significantly slower than a 280. Going by the "two generations" rule, a 610 would be a suitable match to the 780, but a 280 wouldn't, despite the fact that the 610 will hold back the 780 to a far greater degree. If Nvidia ever releases a 710, 720 (which is almost a certain thing), they will also almost certainly also be slower than a 280, and that would be a same-generation card!

If anything, this all goes to show that people have a hard time understanding the performance hierarchy of Nvidia cards, and how that relates to PhysX. If Nvidia were smart, they would bundling a list of suitable physx partners with purchases of any of their GPUs.

As for the situation at hand, a 280 is a viable but sub-optimal choice as a physx card for a single primary 780. The exception to this would be if you plan to play games at low resolutions and low graphical settings, but with physx still cranked up to the max, in which case you would be better off with just the 780 alone.

A better choice for a PhysX card would be a 640, but you would obviously have to actually buy one of those as opposed to already owning the 280.
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post #14 of 21
I get when you're saying real generations being that the 400/500 are Fermi's and the 600/700 a Kepler. Even if so a GTX280 will still hold a 780 back.

It wasn't a perfect test but check it out
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1768879
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post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei86 View Post

I get when you're saying real generations being that the 400/500 are Fermi's and the 600/700 a Kepler. Even if so a GTX280 will still hold a 780 back.

It wasn't a perfect test but check it out
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1768879

690s are significantly more powerful at lower resolutions than Titans are, and as we all know 780s are even less powerful than a Titan. The testing was done at a medium-low resolution (1080), and even still, all physx cards tested yielded better results than the 690 alone with no ppu. Even without a PPU, the average FPS exceeds 60, which makes anything else mostly irrelevant unless playing on a 120hz panel.

Now, for reference, a 280 is roughly as powerful as a 640 or 650 depending on what aspects you are looking at. Completely ignoring anything aside from raw performance of course (energy, heat, directx compatibility, integrated video encoder, etc).

OP is using a 780 on a 2560x1600 (and thus 60hz) panel. This is going to result in a lower frame rate compared to tests done on a 690 at 1080 in the same games with the same settings, and also means there is a lower goal to be reached for maximum tangible benefits.

PhysX doesn't really get more demanding with higher resolutions, in case anyone wasn't aware.

So at this point, I think it's fairly safe to assume a 280 will not limit a 780 at 2560x1600. It might not offer as much of a benefit as a more powerful card, but with a 60hz panel, that may just be irrelevant anyway.

Now again, I wouldn't really suggest a 280 as a physx card, due to it's huge inefficiency compared to more modern cards, but I'm going to have to stand by my initial statement that is is in fact viable, performance wise.
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post #16 of 21
The key here is core counts people. Do keep that in mind.

I was once told that you want aprox 1/3 the core count of the primary gpu for a physx card or dont bother. That being said, I have seen good results with my titan and a GTX 465 unlocked to 448 cores. That is only 1/6th of the count of the titan.
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post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
690s are significantly more powerful at lower resolutions than Titans are, and as we all know 780s are even less powerful than a Titan. The testing was done at a medium-low resolution (1080), and even still, all physx cards tested yielded better results than the 690 alone with no ppu. Even without a PPU, the average FPS exceeds 60, which makes anything else mostly irrelevant unless playing on a 120hz panel.

Now, for reference, a 280 is roughly as powerful as a 640 or 650 depending on what aspects you are looking at. Completely ignoring anything aside from raw performance of course (energy, heat, directx compatibility, integrated video encoder, etc).

OP is using a 780 on a 2560x1600 (and thus 60hz) panel. This is going to result in a lower frame rate compared to tests done on a 690 at 1080 in the same games with the same settings, and also means there is a lower goal to be reached for maximum tangible benefits.

PhysX doesn't really get more demanding with higher resolutions, in case anyone wasn't aware.

So at this point, I think it's fairly safe to assume a 280 will not limit a 780 at 2560x1600. It might not offer as much of a benefit as a more powerful card, but with a 60hz panel, that may just be irrelevant anyway.

Now again, I wouldn't really suggest a 280 as a physx card, due to it's huge inefficiency compared to more modern cards, but I'm going to have to stand by my initial statement that is is in fact viable, performance wise.

Than how about this GTX 680 + PPU 580SC, GT640

http://1pcent.com/?p=135
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post #18 of 21
The 400/500 series cards are actually ideal PhysX processing cards due to their specific architecture being eextremely strong in the compute arena compared to Kepler. As a result, you can not directly compare the amount of CUDA Cores between the two. The 650Ti is approximately equivalent to the 560Ti (regular or 448cores, not sure exactly), despite having something like 2x the amount of CUDA Cores.

The only things that really matter from a performance perspective are: number of CUDA Cores, core/shader clocks, and the architecture of the card.
   
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post #19 of 21
I'm getting rid of my 7970s as well (can't stand AMD drivers and it's only been a month... nothing works right) in favor of 780s in SLI. I could use a 560ti I have for phsyx in other words? Would this be acceptable?
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R-WAN
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Intel 3930k Asrock extreme6 GTX 780 GTX 780 
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G skill 1866 samsung 840 lite-on dvd  swiftech h220 
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post #20 of 21
I used a 460 as a physx card for my 670 and it didn't do anything worth while. I wouldn't bother.
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