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post #151 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

It's all about the TIM under the IHS. Do you really think haswell puts out that much heat? The die just cant transfer it to the IHS correctly


doh.gif

That's Power Consumption, not w TDP. Pretty big difference. One is the juice it sucks, the other how much heat has to dissipate. If any of those processors had to dissipate 200w of heat with something short of chilled water, it would burst in flames. Anyway, good luck trying to troll when your 3rd Advent reaches +97º@4.2Ghz 1.3v. Delidded drops 15º on h2o...either way, not very safe temps biggrin.gif Also, good luck if you want to pair your Ovenclocked Haswell with that 295 SlI wink.gif
    
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post #152 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonehxc View Post

doh.gif

That's Power Consumption, not w TDP. Pretty big difference. One is the juice it sucks, the other how much heat has to dissipate. If any of those processors had to dissipate 200w of heat with something short of chilled water, it would burst in flames. Anyway, good luck trying to troll when your 3rd Advent reaches +97º@4.2Ghz 1.3v. Delidded drops 15º on h2o...either way, not very safe temps biggrin.gif Also, good luck if you want to pair your Ovenclocked Haswell with that 295 SlI wink.gif

I'll just bench with it then throw the 660's in. In the queue to get 780's. Going to be a long wait
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post #153 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

I'll just bench with it then throw the 660's in. In the queue to get 780's. Going to be a long wait

That's more like it. wink.gif

Getting a 4770k, OCing it and then SEVERELY LIMITING its perfomance by imposing a huge GPU bottleneck is surely something I'm eager to see. This is OCN, so there's some worried users due in no time. biggrin.gif

"WHY U NO 60FPS HASWELL?? mad.gif " lachen.gif
    
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post #154 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by RX7-2nr View Post

So where are all you TDP haters in the Haswell threads? Why aren't you complaining that Haswell, specifically the K models, should have been released with a higher TDP? Have you seen the temps those CPUs are reaching? Seems some people just want to complain about AMD no matter what.

This has nothing to do with anything.

AMD and Intel temperatures are not comparable, but more importantly, temperature does not equal heat.

Ivy and Haswell sip power compared to Vishera, and though they run at slightly (yes, slightly is appropriate, because, again, AMD and Intel do not report temps that are directly comparable) higher temperatures, they do not put out anywhere near the same amount of heat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by computerparts View Post

Has that been proven?

It's the primary culprit, and yes, it's been demonstrated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by computerparts View Post

I do remember reading about the tri gate transistors having something to do with it though,

Intel's tri-gate transistors were a measure to reduce leakage and 22nm likely wouldn't have been possible at current clocks without it. However, it does appear that Intel missed their targets, and that their 22nm chips have higher power/heat density than originally intended.

Change of TIM from solder to a thicker and less conductive gap filler/putty does seem to be the primary "problem", however.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Delidded ivy owners see a 30C temp reduction adding liquid metal in place of intel's TIM. Speaks volume's to the problem

30C is not typical, but yes, there are certainly appreciable gains by replacing the TIM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonehxc View Post

That's Power Consumption, not w TDP. Pretty big difference. One is the juice it sucks, the other how much heat has to dissipate.

TDP is neither of these.

TDP is the amount of heat the cooling solution must remove in order for the worst examples of a part to stay within spec.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonehxc View Post

If any of those processors had to dissipate 200w of heat with something short of chilled water, it would burst in flames

Wrong.

Virtually every single watt of power that goes into a CPU comes out as heat. Basic, immutable, laws of thermodynamics here.

Power consumption and heat dissipation are effectively identical.
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post #155 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Delidded ivy owners see a 30C temp reduction adding liquid metal in place of intel's TIM. Speaks volume's to the problem
Do you mean low temperature solder or metal-based TIM?

Got a link for that?
post #156 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicmew View Post

Do you mean low temperature solder or metal-based TIM?

Got a link for that?

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/3784/thr-26/Coollaboratory_Liquid_PRO_Thermal_Interface_Material.html

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2299323
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post #157 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post


TDP is the amount of heat the cooling solution must remove in order for the worst examples of a part to stay within spec.
Wrong.

Virtually every single watt of power that goes into a CPU comes out as heat. Basic, immutable, laws of thermodynamics here.

Power consumption and heat dissipation are effectively identical.

That chart measures Total Power Consumption(whole rig) from the wall socket, not how much juice the PSU is providing to the rigor how much is entering the CPU. So my point stands. biggrin.gif

BTW, missunderstanding my post and giving an appreciated but not requested clarification it's not a way to show how much you know. Can you tell me the difference between "how much heat has to dissipate" and "how much heat the cooling solution must remove"....it's the same, man. You're arguing semantics. Your clarification it's better worded than mine but it's the same I've said thumb.gif
Edited by Nonehxc - 6/1/13 at 8:22pm
    
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post #158 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Yeah just compare a 4.8ghz piledriver vs a 3.5ghz 4770k. lachen.gif

Both CPUs are at stock settings, you know.

stock clock speeds being much higher on one chip vs another is usually only a valid comparison on ocn when that particular advantage goes against AMD.thumb.gif
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post #159 of 953
220W TDP? No way...
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post #160 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Virtually every single watt of power that goes into a CPU comes out as heat. Basic, immutable, laws of thermodynamics here.

Power consumption and heat dissipation are effectively identical.

No, they are not.

The i7 920 has a TDP of 130W and yet easily manages to draw 220W of power, it was worse than the Phenom II line at stock and just as bad when overclocked.
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