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[Various] Intel Haswell Reviews - Page 28

post #271 of 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by nepas View Post

So,can someone explain this to me:
From the ASUS guide.

So why does using AVX cause the difference in voltage?

 

Sounds like it is adjusting the VID based on the type/stress of the load, which I guess makes sense in the interest of power saving, but their example was a pretty huge jump in voltage.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elreyhorus View Post

Forced convergence is not the answer and one size does not fit all.

Maybe not for users, but it's a lot cheaper to develop and produce a single line though.  And since desktop computing has been "good enough" for years, shifting focus to mobile makes sense from Intel's perspective.

post #272 of 858
After reading through the various reviews and post in this thread for the past hour or so I am far from impressed and all the leaked test results were pretty much confirmed as credible in my opinion.
As a former 2600k user before upgrading to the 3770k which was only because a good deal presented itself to me, after seeing these results if anyone was to ask me to recommend a build platform I would recommend a 2500k2600k/2700k hands down unless iGPU and power saving was a requirement but in all honesty if you buy a k processor the intent is to overclock and power saving isn't even a factor, you just want a max 24/7 oc you can get for max performance.
I have owned 2x 2600ks both obtained 4.8 easily (max overclocks were 5.0) and temperatures were kept in check with no problems using the H100 in push/pull however the 4x 3770ks I had, the most recent was worthy of the change from SB to IB since all the others before developing a fault I struggled to control temperatures with the H100 or the processor couldn't pass 4.6. Since these reviews give a mixed bag of overclocking results and show the the temperature issue is still present, going either the IB or Haswell route just isn't worth the headache even though clock for clock there is roughly a 10% increase at best in performance for each generation.
For a SB to hit same performance as Haswell you are looking at 5.1/5.2 which is a huge ask but even at 4.8 the performance difference is negligible and by no means a slouch and a friend who has been waiting for Haswell released reviews before building his new gaming pc but after seeing these reviews today he decided to step back to a 2700k build. With the price drop on SB he was able to swap from a GTX680/770 to a GTX780 staying within budget which is a great trade off if you ask me. By going this route he is indeed investing in a dead socket with little to no upgrade path but SB samples for overclocking are better to obtain higher clocks therefore closing the performance gap compared to the max overclock performance Haswell appears to be obtaining without the insanely high temperatures.
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post #273 of 858
Crap, now I have to figure out if I want to buy a new 3770k to replace the one I've burned out Tony Stark palladium style or just upgrade to Ivy-E.

Kinda glad Haswell sucks at overclocking (which I was planning it would months ago because of FIVR). Does simplify the situation a bit.
post #274 of 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

The two are related. MS doesn't have enough people with powerful hardware to add large amounts of features to Windows, because if they do it'll be "bloat." So, instead, they try and reach a new market.

Intel then turns around and says, "no one needs this much power anymore!" and then they don't release chips.

I think a lot of this "these CPUs are fast enough!" mentality is like saying 640k is enough. Yeah, it was at the time, but software will use additional hardware if enough people have it.

Ask yourself what you think Windows 8 would look like if Intel quads were priced like i3s, hexes were priced like i5s, and 8 cores were at 3930k price levels. My guess is that we'd be seeing some sort of fancy new 3d GUI with cool features (like a modern Linux distro), DirectX coming up with some sort of solution to use all those cores through an easy to use API, etc.

It's a real shame, it feels like they're both conspiring against enthusiasts. I feel like they look at how big Apple has become by selling consumerist crap instead of developing world class processors and the most popular operating system (hate it or not) of all time, so they're trying to emulate Apple.

It's a shame really, because MS and Intel are going to alienate the hardcore geeks and enthusiasts, and they've always been the ones there to recommend those products to other people.

But to say we have enough performance now is crazy. The software just simply isn't there yet. I could take a Pentium 4, run DOS, and then go "look, this P4 is so strong that we don't need anything better!", but I'm pretty sure I"m not alone in thinking that I enjoy a modern OS and the software that we run now as opposed to just having a fast, ancient OS running programs in 640k of ram.

And it's never going to be there, Intel wants to sell cheap, disposable crap that no one can upgrade to be like Apple, and Microsoft wants to have the big OS that's competing with iOS. AMD is just as guilty, but at least it seems like they're not giving up on enthusiasts.

I completely agree with everything you said.

Intel and Microsoft are pushing computers towards becoming generic appliances like a refrigerator in an attempt to be like Apple. Sad.
The irony is, not even Apple uses a one-size-fits-all approach with their products (iOS vs Mac OSX, A-series ARM-based processors vs Intel x86 processors).
    
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post #275 of 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesku View Post

Well they did lead the launch with the K series... But they also pulled their enthusiast reps a few weeks before launch... and had the NDA lift on a Saturday (no mainstream coverage). So yeah, I think Intel was playing some games on this one.

No they didn't. Intel started shipping Haswell to OEMs back in April for their mobile products.

Please, know what you are talking about before you talk about it.
    
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post #276 of 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by nepas View Post

So you don't read then?

4.6 Haswell=4.8 Ivy

why does it need higher clocks if its faster anyway(not that I am impressed with Haswell)
To be faster than its predecessor in total IPS.
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post #277 of 858
that's horrible, overclocking is just a little bit worse than ivy average chips, i was expecting better only because what the intel guy said on the intel reddit ama, disappointed with temps as well
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post #278 of 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Maybe not for users, but it's a lot cheaper to develop and produce a single line though.  And since desktop computing has been "good enough" for years, shifting focus to mobile makes sense from Intel's perspective.

"Just good enough" is never good enough. 'Good enough' is contrary to the spirit of innovation. 'Good enough' is the mentality of corporate greed- profit margins over performance- not the technologist/enthusiast.

IPC still matters. Clock speed still matters.
Video rendering and transcoding, 3D modeling, etc still matter.

There are some applications that require more processing power than tablets/smartphones can ever hope to deliver. Moreover, this type of computing power should not come at a Intel Extreme-edition or Xeon price premium.
    
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post #279 of 858
And therein lies the fundamental problem-

What's good for Intel and Intel's profit margins/shareholders is not necessarily good for enthusiasts and power users.
    
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post #280 of 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

since it has been mentioned several times, here is the reddit Q&A with the intel engineer:
IAmA CPU Architect and Designer at Intel, AMA.

not to dispute anyone's recollection; i really do not recall reading that haswell will be "an overclocker's dream" but did see where overclocking broadwell will be "interesting" . .

that is all.

Looks like your search function is broken.
He may not have said OCers dream (I definitely remember those lines) but they certainly embellished the truth and made it seem better than it actually is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nepas View Post

So you don't read then?

4.6 Haswell=4.8 Ivy

why does it need higher clocks if its faster anyway(not that I am impressed with Haswell)

It's like Ivy was, a small performance improvement when all is said and done.
    
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