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[Various] Intel Haswell Reviews - Page 78

post #771 of 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remix65 View Post

and intel has the audacity of saying that Microsoft/windows 8 is do blame for the slunp in desktop sales lol...

http://www.kitguru.net/laptops/benjamin/intel-exec-says-windows-8-modest-launch-has-hurt-pc-growth/
Not arguing your point, but much like statistics he is playin with numbers. Since Windows 8 released horribly there were fewer upgrade sales than might be expected with great release. So he isn't necessarily wrong. But He could have said for the last 5-6years that the economy has been hurting sales, well NO s....!
post #772 of 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheyster View Post

Well, I read about half of those reviews and I'm completely uninspired. Add the fact that you also have to get a new mobo and it's definitely a no-go for me. Staying with SB for now since I really don't think an upgrade to IB or Haswell will improve my gaming experience whatsoever.

Looks like a new monitor and video card (GTX 780) are in my future. thumb.gif

It's unlikely that you really need more than an i5-2500K 4.5ghz+ no matter what game you play. Only for enthusiast applications do you really need anything more than a 2500K, ie streaming, high level encoding, cpu scrypt work, etc. I'd say the vast majority of users on OCN don't even bench or actually utilize CPU overclocks, it's just gamers, and for them it's all about the GPU.

I mean there's only so many people here who play starcraft, wow, moba's, which are very 'outdated' games in a cpu utilization sense and thus need the strongest 2 core CPU's you can basically get. Even the 3 AAA titles out right now that actually use more than 4 cores, are so GPU limited that they could care less what CPU you have. Exception might be Crysis3 which is just a lot more demanding than any other game but that game will also make a 7950 shut up.

I'd love to see a proper VRM review by Sin, I think a lot of us are asking if we should get the Asus Z87-A or is the Gigabyte UD4H for $34 worth it (at microcenter). I think on most online places the choice is mostly UD3H vs Z87-A vs Extreme3.
Edited by Belial - 6/7/13 at 6:09am
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post #773 of 858
as a manufacturing engineer all of these conspiracy comments on Intel's use of TIM are kind of cringeworthy:

Manufacturing processes don't get changed arbitrarily. From a raw material cost TIM is likely MORE expensive than flux/solder, not less. Optimizing Yield and quality are the primary drivers of manufacturing processes and are the biggest factors on cost savings.

Note that this move to TIM only happened with a much smaller die @ 22nm. If you effectively fuse the die to the IHS you are putting the die in the position of experiencing higher mechanical stresses. The die surface area with which to absorb these stresses is notably smaller than previous gen CPU. It's plausible that a move to TIM would be the result of thermal/mechanical stress testing results finding a higher percentage of die cracking/failure in fused die/IHS situations. (boy, that's a lot of slashes). The more mobile devices out there the more CPU's that are getting dropped. I'm sure that would add to the concern if drop tests showed higher failures.

Obviously Intel has a relationship with OEM's who they provide silicon to, not to mention their direct customers. What do you think the relationship would be if Intel was intentionally reducing the quality of the silicon they provided to OEM's that resulted in those products failing at a higher rate? Not good, and it would probably cost Intel quite a bit of $$$ if it was determined to be an Intel issue. From a manufacturing perspective the use of TIM is logically to REDUCE failures @ 22nm die to protect their customers. If you're bringing wild speculation at least have something to back it up other than "X company is evil and wants to screw their customers over".
Edited by Pheesh - 6/7/13 at 11:15am
post #774 of 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheesh View Post

as a manufacturing engineer all of these conspiracy comments on Intel's use of TIM are kind of cringeworthy:

Note that this move to TIM only happened with a much smaller die @ 22nm. If you effectively fuse the die to the IHS you are putting the die in the position of experiencing higher mechanical stresses. The die surface area with which to absorb these stresses is notably smaller than previous gen CPU. It's plausible that a move to TIM would be the result of thermal/mechanical stress testing results finding a higher percentage of die cracking/failure in fused die/IHS situations. (boy, that's a lot of slashes). The more mobile devices out there the more CPU's that are getting dropped. I'm sure that would add to the concern if drop tests showed higher failures.
Having your dusty dell running higher isn't gonna win consumers.
And besides and here goes we've seen solder on dies which were less than half the size of ivy's die.
post #775 of 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remix65 View Post

I'm a bit hash.... disappointed should be the word.

That is more accurate. I am also somewhat disappointed, it is strange when the new boards are more exciting than the cpus that go in them.
    
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post #776 of 858
so... rumors out of England are claiming that Haswell has a bigger heat issue then we're lead to believe. It seems that intel cherry picked the best cpus to send out to reviewers and that the commertial product has a far greater heat issue, and much lower overclocks.

you can read more here

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/382267/intel-haswell-hotter-and-slower-than-expected

the part that alarms me is that this article seems to mesh with a rumor i've heard from a friend in the industry, which was that 1 out of 4 haswell not being able to clock higher then 4.0ghz, and that a number have actually destroyed themselves on the stock heat-sink and stock settings. That there is an insanely high return number on the early chips for being faulty or melting in the motherboard. granted this is a rumor from a dude who wouldn't know from personal experience, but he works at newegg... and would know through the grapevine. Anyone have any experience to verify or deny this?

Obviously if this is true then those with the "samples" will have had a radically different experience, so i guess i'm asking what people with the actual production run haswell are getting. That article seems to claim 4.5 is the absolute max overclock, and that 4.2 seems to be the most you'll get on air no matter what the chip.
 
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post #777 of 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

the part that alarms me is that this article seems to mesh with a rumor i've heard from a friend in the industry, which was that 1 out of 4 haswell not being able to clock higher then 4.0ghz, and that a number have actually destroyed themselves on the stock heat-sink and stock settings. That there is an insanely high return number on the early chips for being faulty or melting in the motherboard. granted this is a rumor from a dude who wouldn't know from personal experience, but he works at newegg... and would know through the grapevine. Anyone have any experience to verify or deny this?
Sometimes people in the industry tends to blow things out of proportions, but on the other hand he might be actually correct. Lets wait for few more results until conclusion because he might hear just about one bad batch.

However a person on [H] said there is massive heat increase when he went from 3.7 GHz to 4.0 GHz. Which is quite strange. 300 MHz for 19 degrees C.
post #778 of 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghar View Post

Sometimes people in the industry tends to blow things out of proportions, but on the other hand he might be actually correct. Lets wait for few more results until conclusion because he might hear just about one bad batch.

However a person on [H] said there is massive heat increase when he went from 3.7 GHz to 4.0 GHz. Which is quite strange. 300 MHz for 19 degrees C.
Intel's vrm's aren't that efficient and can't hold out the load.
post #779 of 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

so... rumors out of England are claiming that Haswell has a bigger heat issue then we're lead to believe. It seems that intel cherry picked the best cpus to send out to reviewers and that the commertial product has a far greater heat issue, and much lower overclocks.

you can read more here

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/382267/intel-haswell-hotter-and-slower-than-expected

the part that alarms me is that this article seems to mesh with a rumor i've heard from a friend in the industry, which was that 1 out of 4 haswell not being able to clock higher then 4.0ghz, and that a number have actually destroyed themselves on the stock heat-sink and stock settings. That there is an insanely high return number on the early chips for being faulty or melting in the motherboard. granted this is a rumor from a dude who wouldn't know from personal experience, but he works at newegg... and would know through the grapevine. Anyone have any experience to verify or deny this?

Obviously if this is true then those with the "samples" will have had a radically different experience, so i guess i'm asking what people with the actual production run haswell are getting. That article seems to claim 4.5 is the absolute max overclock, and that 4.2 seems to be the most you'll get on air no matter what the chip.


Mine got hot at stock (like 80C+ if I remember correctly) even on the X60, so I can imagine running one on a stock heatsink might not be a good idea.  Of course, most people aren't using Prime or IBT so they wouldn't experience those temps in any case. 

 

But they do seem to get hot really fast with increased voltage.  Whether that's the impact of the VRM or just the chip itself, it is going to make the silicon lottery even more important. What I've seen agrees with what Asus said, which was voltage above 1.35V is going to be very hard to run on normal air/water.  So whatever your chip gets at that voltage might just be what you get.

 

And if I hadn't already delidded mine, I'd be seriously considering returning it and the motherboard.

post #780 of 858
Forceman - congrats on the 'flamage'...
condolences on the Haswell, I'm not going there.
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