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Single vs. dual pass radiators - "Cross-flow" - Page 2

post #11 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post


If slower was better, you could take a normal CPU block and mill out the pins or microchannels. This will net you an increased cross sectional area and net you the same slower velocity, but not better temps.

Actually that analogy isn't accurate. I had said. "Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the ideal cooling situation when you have two fluids exchanging heat to have the fluid BEING cooled to move slowly, and the fluid DOING the cooling moving fast"
In your analogy the thing being cooled is the CPU, which is idle, and the thing cooling is the liquid which is moving fast(preferable)

I'm not trying to sit here and argue, so don't misunderstand. Any reference to those tests? Links preferably
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post #12 of 35
Hmm, found this light reading from Bill. The guy was amazing, miss his work.
http://www.overclockers.com/radiator-heat-dissipation-testing/

Not sure that pinpoints the topic but loads of other good stuff that is worth looking over.
    
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post #13 of 35
And another...need to read again but I think this is the one I remember:
http://www.swiftech.com/Resources/White_Papers/Assessment%20of%20Radiator%20Performance.pdf
    
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post #14 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post

And another...need to read again but I think this is the one I remember:
http://www.swiftech.com/Resources/White_Papers/Assessment%20of%20Radiator%20Performance.pdf

Yep, that's the one read Bills comments on page 5 of 15. 2 pass generally better than x-flow

My memory sucks sometimes but there you go, data for your reading pleasure..smile.gif
    
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post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post

Yep, that's the one read Bills comments on page 5 of 15. 2 pass generally better than x-flow

My memory sucks sometimes but there you go, data for your reading pleasure..smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post

And another...need to read again but I think this is the one I remember:
http://www.swiftech.com/Resources/White_Papers/Assessment%20of%20Radiator%20Performance.pdf

But at 1.5GPM, which is what most CPU water blocks will allow, single row radiators dissipated more heat than the dual pass radiators according to the graphs on page 4, 5 and 6. What am I missing here?
Edited by ZytheEKS - 6/1/13 at 10:00pm
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post #16 of 35
Black Ice Pro (BIP): Made by HW Labs, the BI Pro is a single row, 2-pass configuration.
o BI Cross Also by HW Labs. The BI Cross (X-Flow ?) is the same radiator core as the BI Pro, but
with different headers to convert it from a 2-pass to a single-pass, or cross flow configuration



I think you might be getting rows and passes mixed up.

Group 2
o Black Ice Extreme (BIX): Made by HW Labs, the BIX is a 2 row variant of the BI Pro, again a 2-pass
configuration



Black Ice Pro 120 single row dual pass ... 175 watts at 1.5 GPM
Black Ice Cross 120 Single row single pass ... 170 watts at 1.5 GPM
Black Ice Extreme 120 Dual row dual pass ... 175 watts at 1.5 GPM
Edited by Jakusonfire - 6/1/13 at 10:42pm
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post #17 of 35
Possible but more typical to see somewhere in the 1.0-1.5 gpm range is more likely and what should be designed for. I missed that in my earlier reading but Bill is right 1-1.5 is the ideal target. Many of the smaller pumps and AIO kits can't even get to 1.0. Water cooling has been shifting a bit toward value systems where pumps and <200 dollar kits likely carry the majority of users. A pump like the H220 max flow is 0.6 GPM. The XSPC kit in the 1.0-1.2 gpm if you add a GPU, etc. Most with higher end pump users have the cash to add more blocks and more restriction so again generally not going to see >1.5 GPM.

Also running some pumps such as a DDC at 2.0GPM or higher is a good way to burn out a pump with excessive heat.

If you have an unusual loop with super high flow though, single pass may be the better option it sounds but I don't expect that to be typical. I think Bills thought about 1.0-1.5 still holds true today, if anything the lower limit has gone down with smaller pumps that have come to the market. Today I would estimate .6-1.5GPM as the ideal range.

Of coarse this is all based on that old 2005 test, nothing new to dispute it though.
Edited by Martinm210 - 6/1/13 at 10:27pm
    
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post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post


I think you might be getting rows and passes mixed up.


That would be an accurate assumption!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post

Possible but more typical to see somewhere in the 1.0-1.5 gpm range is more likely and what should be designed for. I missed that in my earlier reading but Bill is right 1-1.5 is the ideal target. Many of the smaller pumps and AIO kits can't even get to 1.0. Water cooling has been shifting a bit toward value systems where pumps and <200 dollar kits likely carry the majority of users. A pump like the H220 max flow is 0.6 GPM. The XSPC kit in the 1.0-1.2 gpm if you add a GPU, etc. Most with higher end pump users have the cash to add more blocks and more restriction so again generally not going to see >1.5 GPM.

Also running some pumps such as a DDC at 2.0GPM or higher is a good way to burn out a pump with excessive heat.

If you have an unusual loop with super high flow though, single pass may be the better option it sounds but I don't expect that to be typical. I think Bills thought about 1.0-1.5 still holds true today, if anything the lower limit has gone down with smaller pumps that have come to the market. Today I would estimate .6-1.5GPM as the ideal range.

Of coarse this is all based on that old 2005 test, nothing new to dispute it though.



Hu, I'd like to see some tests compare the BlackIce GT Stealth and GT Stealth X-Flow to see the exact differential between the two. Ah, projects I wish I had money for. XD

Anywho, thanks for the links.
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post #19 of 35
Me too, GTS is different enough with it's ultra slim tubes to maybe be more optimal single pass above 1.0 or something.

It is also pretty high in restriction so a pretty good restriction improvement if nothing else.

I never did get into flow rate sensitivity testing myself with rads. Tried it once but found the difference too small to be worth the time. Fan speed on the other other hand has huge impacts so I always put the focus on testing more fan speeds and leave hydraulic power to some common level. My Roundtwo was using a cpu block and a 35x2 at 40% which provided around 1.4GPM to lower restriction rads and a little less for high restriction rads but that way restriction is accounted for in the thermal performance as it would in the real world use.

Never tested a GTS, but I have tested a few GTX rads as well as the SR-1. Still the best build quLity rads I've had my hands on. SR-1 is very different than the GTS or GTX though, it does not share the same thin tubes or fin type.

Anyhow good reads from the original testing guru and pioneer of watercooling. Miss those days..
    
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post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post

Me too, GTS is different enough with it's ultra slim tubes to maybe be more optimal single pass above 1.0 or something.

It is also pretty high in restriction so a pretty good restriction improvement if nothing else.

I never did get into flow rate sensitivity testing myself with rads. Tried it once but found the difference too small to be worth the time. Fan speed on the other other hand has huge impacts so I always put the focus on testing more fan speeds and leave hydraulic power to some common level. My Roundtwo was using a cpu block and a 35x2 at 40% which provided around 1.4GPM to lower restriction rads and a little less for high restriction rads but that way restriction is accounted for in the thermal performance as it would in the real world use.

Never tested a GTS, but I have tested a few GTX rads as well as the SR-1. Still the best build quLity rads I've had my hands on. SR-1 is very different than the GTS or GTX though, it does not share the same thin tubes or fin type.

Anyhow good reads from the original testing guru and pioneer of watercooling. Miss those days..


Plus the GTS has a ridiculous 30FPI split fin setup... Not sure why that would matter for U-Pass vs X-Flow, but it's definitely a feature unique to the GTS XD
Edited by ZytheEKS - 6/1/13 at 11:46pm
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