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post #21 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

80Mb < 100Mb tongue.gif

I was talking about Bluray disk images (ie I've not re-encoded / transcoded the content into any other codec nor compression ratio).

I've been able to play HD content over wifi pretty easily as well (35Mb/s connection as wireless is pretty crappy in my house). But that was transcoded content.

Hmm....I'm curious as to why my streams take up quite a bit more bandwidth. Not exactly taxing on it by any means but still curious. Are you pulling out just the video itself or the entire disk including menus, subtitles, extras, etc...? Two bluray streams would choke if I were on a 100 mbit connection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious Andre View Post

Are you referring to Mbps or MB/s?

Also, isn't 100 Mbps about 12.5 MB/s. what would be a good bandwidth if three separate tvs were streaming bluray at the same time. Here is another question. I have no idea how storage is capable of multitasking. Can three seperate tvs access the same file at the same time or three seperate files at the same on the same disk. Am I starting to inadvertently ask questions about Raid or NAS?

Whoops, Sorry I hope I didn't confuse you too much. Plan9 hit it right on the money, basically if you have a gigabit uplink you can stream full bluray content to multiple devices and it won't even break a sweat. Really you don't need to worry about disk performance either. I have noticed a bit of jitter when pulling 3 streams from the same disk but that is probably due to where on the platter itself the data was located. That said I probably wouldn't recommend running multiple streams from and recording to the same disk at the same time.

I don't know about the other guys I'm no genius in regards to this stuff. It was and still is a learn by doing activity. I am a media whore and usually the one hosting movie night. I probably store more content in a day than some people do in a week and I really don't watch much TV, I just like the noise. rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffy12345 View Post

Nice. Definitely jealous of that setup. I'm not sure if it's applicable, but this is one of the best networking tips/examples I've seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycbq_gTqT5M

Linus is beyond awesome. If only that network card wasn't $1000
I saw that video while working through some ideas I was having when I was putting this setup together. I don't have a quad port adapter but multiple dual ports for certain systems. Server 2012 can do the link aggregation across multiple NICs fairly easily now. Most people will never get close to needing more than a gigabit link but I move data like crazy with my research work but that is another story. I have only seen mine hit 3.8 Gb/s once or twice and usually stays around 2.

Jeez I need to stop posting walls of text. Sorry folks. tongue.gif
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post #22 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylepdalton View Post

Hmm....I'm curious as to why my streams take up quite a bit more bandwidth. Not exactly taxing on it by any means but still curious. Are you pulling out just the video itself or the entire disk including menus, subtitles, extras, etc...? Two bluray streams would choke if I were on a 100 mbit connection.
Whoops, Sorry I hope I didn't confuse you too much. Plan9 hit it right on the money, basically if you have a gigabit uplink you can stream full bluray content to multiple devices and it won't even break a sweat. Really you don't need to worry about disk performance either. I have noticed a bit of jitter when pulling 3 streams from the same disk but that is probably due to where on the platter itself the data was located. That said I probably wouldn't recommend running multiple streams from and recording to the same disk at the same time.
Those are all impossible question to answer as there are so many variables and details you've not told us:
  • How are you streaming the data? SMB share or DLNA stream?
  • If the latter, are you transcoding?
  • What's the spec of your server?
  • How are your HDDs hooked up?
  • What file system are you running? and what settings do you have (deduping? file system level compression? etc)
  • What networking gear are you running this over (eg basic hubs? switches? homeplugs? wireless?)
  • How are you performing the tests? (ie are you just looking to see if playback goes choppy? or have you transferred files across your network to test throughput?)
  • What OS are you running on the server? And any additional background processes that might tie up CPU / RAM / network i/o? (eg are you running bit-torrent / usenet clients?)
  • etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylepdalton View Post

Server 2012 can do the link aggregation across multiple NICs fairly easily now.
I love how Windows is typically a decade behind *nix when it comes to basic server technology laugher.gif
Edited by Plan9 - 6/3/13 at 3:51pm
post #23 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylepdalton View Post

Jeez I need to stop posting walls of text. Sorry folks. tongue.gif

Your walls of text help out quite a bit. Would link aggregation really help out all that much. I did watch the video. It was pretty interesting. I would try to be more detailed, but I usually forget what I am trying to post when I'm one fingering it on an ipad. I'll move to my computer later on.redface.gif
post #24 of 51
Threads like this make me want to take a networking class, or at least revisit some of my old A+ cert books. They didn't delve into much though, pretty basic. I'm not as technical as most of you on this thread, but HD content over my home network using a mix of a GB router and a 100 switch has never given me problems. Granted everything is probably compressed (didn't even know you could stream a blu ray from one machine to another) but ripped movies and HD cable programs don't cause any hiccups whatsoever. My main HTPC with 3TB of movies and a Ceton card can easily stream to any of the computers on the network, multiples at times. Wireless is a different story. Things fall apart quickly.
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post #25 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Those are all impossible question to answer as there are so many variables and details you've not told us:
  • How are you streaming the data? SMB share or DLNA stream?
  • If the latter, are you transcoding?
  • What's the spec of your server?
  • How are your HDDs hooked up?
  • What file system are you running? and what settings do you have (deduping? file system level compression? etc)
  • What networking gear are you running this over (eg basic hubs? switches? homeplugs? wireless?)
  • How are you performing the tests? (ie are you just looking to see if playback goes choppy? or have you transferred files across your network to test throughput?)
  • What OS are you running on the server? And any additional background processes that might tie up CPU / RAM / network i/o? (eg are you running bit-torrent / usenet clients?)
  • etc
I love how Windows is typically a decade behind *nix when it comes to basic server technology laugher.gif

Sorry more rhetorical curious than actually curious. We could start a whole new thread on figuring it out but at the end of the day, my setup works perfectly for me so I'm not going to worry about it. I was just surprised by Beers' 15 mbps mkv stream as all the setups I've seen are always greater than 30 mbps regardless of setup. Your list are all the things CuriousAndre should consider when going though this process though.

I use both *nix and Windows server they both have their uses with *nix more often having more than not. I'm with you on why that feature wasn't well developed in earlier versions, it was there just really fiddly. It is simple now though and easier to implement than when I have done it with *nix servers. Point, click, done. I would use *nix more if my applications had some support for it but that is not likely to happen anytime soon.
Quote:
Your walls of text help out quite a bit. Would link aggregation really help out all that much. I did watch the video. It was pretty interesting. I would try to be more detailed, but I usually forget what I am trying to post when I'm one fingering it on an ipad. I'll move to my computer later on.redface.gif

It would if you had a need for it. With just a typical media/file server it is doubtful that you ever would though. Single disk drives have a hard time keeping up with it for the most part. I have a lot of traffic moving around my network so I am a bit of an anomaly. My fast moving traffic comes from RAID arrays, SSDs, and ram drives and passes through several machines before it comes to a stop on my LAN.
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post #26 of 51
Thread Starter 
I was hoping someone would bring up those ceton cards. I have been looking at those for quite a while. About two months ago my mom started to complain about the cable bill she was paying every month. Through some research I was able to cut the phone out of the bill that really only saved $22. I got an ObiTalk. We went down to a Comcast service center to see what we could do about locking in a new price. Our old price was $149 base + all the rental fees came out to $197. The new one came out to $79 + tax and rental fees at $135. I had no idea that we were going to be saving $1020 on the cable bill per year for the next two years. If I can build a central DVR I could help her save another $516. We were paying about $2500/year and if I could cut the DVR rental fees out of the picture ($43 per month, crappy ones at that) I could get them down just shy of $1100/yr. I have no idea why I just told you all of that, but I figured I could show you what a little tenacity could do.

Here is a list of what I think I would need:

Patch Panel
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10514&cs_id=1051401&p_id=7253&seq=1&format=2

I am only thinking about this patch panel because it is $2 more than the 12 port one. If I am running wire might as well make it as efficient as possible (a little too much? probably.) I know you're thinking just how many ports would one person need. Well, I wonder myself. Might as well keep the options open.

Cat 6 cable (any in the first two sections, does it matter if it is solid cable or stranded?)
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10234

I am thinking of doing what Kyle is doing. I haven't really found any extenders that get very good reviews except for an Xbox and, no, I am not going to stick one of those next to either of my parent's TVs. I do have them on board with this. They are willing to learn if it is going to be a better experience overall (as well as save them money).

That is all I will ask for the moment moment. I know that we have covered the unnecessity (not even a word, I don't care) of 10GE, but Cat6 cable can handle it with runs between 37-55 meters (or is it yards?). If I am going to spend the time with my electrician friend might as well use wire that is capable of faster speeds should the price drop enough in the next eight to ten years of faster equipment.

I know this is a lot, but might as well add a few more things. I was thinking of adding a few of these (or is that a bad idea. They are pretty cheap.):

Switch
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833156250

I already have two routers that are 10/100. I have a 30 down 5 up internet connection. I don't see a point of upgrading the routers since I don't think this streaming thing is going to touch the router.

There is a closet in our short little hallway that is 24 inches wide. I was thinking of running the modem, router, switch and patch panel in that closet. Is that a good idea? or not? We'll take a breather on this one.
post #27 of 51
CuriousA, I would also look into HDHomerun Prime. I have the Ceton in my main recording unit but all my other PC's stream live tv from the HDHomerun over a 10/100 network. I set up my libraries to access the main DVR with the Ceton in it so any recording is being done with that unit only. It keeps it all central without having to fish through the other machines for a show. My network setup is basically a GB router with my main HTPC (the DVR with the Ceton), my gaming pc, the HDHomerun and a 10/100 switch connected to it. The switch has two other pc's and a printer hooked up to it. This is all done with Cat5e wiring. As far as streaming goes and watching live TV, there has never been an issue where I ran out of bandwidth. I love the setup and wouldn't change a thing about it. I'm not sure how large file transfers would work on it but I don't do those so it's not an issue for me. I've tried using Xbox's as extenders and you won't be happy with that. They work ok if that's all you have but they are loud, slower, and have their limitations (duh). Also on a side note, I would plan on using a seperate drive if funds allow to watch and record TV onto. A slow 5400 green drive is all you need for that. Do not use a SSD for it. The amount of read/writes that go on while watching live tv is not something you want to subject a SSD to and a nice quiet drive is what you want. I've tested recording 3 shows to that drive and watching another with no problems.
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post #28 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavey00 View Post

CuriousA, I would also look into HDHomerun Prime. I have the Ceton in my main recording unit but all my other PC's stream live tv from the HDHomerun over a 10/100 network. I set up my libraries to access the main DVR with the Ceton in it so any recording is being done with that unit only. It keeps it all central without having to fish through the other machines for a show. My network setup is basically a GB router with my main HTPC (the DVR with the Ceton), my gaming pc, the HDHomerun and a 10/100 switch connected to it.

Do both these units record in the same format? I guess it comes down to the signal that comcast is providing, doesn't it? So are you using your HDHomeruns as the extenders?

Edit: That HDHomerun Prime gets much better ratings than the Ceton Echo. So your ceton card is doing all the recording, but you are using all of your Homeruns to stream the media? I hope I am understanding that right.
Edited by Curious Andre - 6/3/13 at 5:58pm
post #29 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious Andre View Post

Do both these units record in the same format? I guess it comes down to the signal that comcast is providing, doesn't it? So are you using your HDHomeruns as the extenders?

Edit: That HDHomerun Prime gets much better ratings than the Ceton Echo. So your ceton card is doing all the recording, but you are using all of your Homeruns to stream the media? I hope I am understanding that right.

They do record in the same format. Both require Windows Media Center for subscription cable to be watched, unless there is a workaround with another program. Honestly it works so well in WMC I'm not sure why someone would want to use anything else unless they didn't own the W7 or W8pro. To answer your question more specifically, the HTPC with the Ceton is in my living room. The Ceton has 4 tuners, which allows me to record 4 shows at once or record 3 while watching a 4th. The other machines use the HDHomerun Prime device which has 3 tuners, all accessible over the network. The HTPC is not setup to use it though because I want it to use the Ceton exclusively. I've never run into an instance where I ran out of tuners on it at any given time so it doesn't really need access to the HDHomerun anyway. The HDHomerun is reserved for the other TV's for live tv, and since I only have 3 machines accessing it there will never be an instance where I run out of tuners for live tv on those machines either. A few facts between the two: The Ceton takes around a minute once you resume from sleep/boot to acquire licenses from the cable card. It also runs incredibly hot, so leave room for air around it. It advertises being able to use a network bridge so you can dedicate tuners to other machines on the network but for one, you have to dedicate tuners which is just that. No sharing, so if you dedicate 2 tuner to 2 other machines you are left with only two tuners on the machine it's in. Second the bridge works like crap and is unreliable imo. This is where the HDHomerun shines. It's always on so no waiting for anything. The tuners are sharable, so if you are only purchasing this unit one machine can use 1 while two others use the other 2, or one machine can use all 3, etc. Also the HDHomerun changes channels faster, which is important to some people. There. I've added my wall of text tongue.gif
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post #30 of 51
Thread Starter 
So, if I'm getting this right, you are only using the Homeruns as devices for live tv and the ceton card for all your recording?
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