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HWBOT Prime

post #1 of 89
Thread Starter 
So I have been an AMD user forever. The other day was given a new benchmark HWBOT Prime. Ran it and to my surprise there are a slew of FX8350 topping the list. http://hwbot.org/benchmark/hwbot_prime/ So lately before this benchmark I began thinking that we have been looking at this all wrong. Intel has been leading the benches for some time. Now there may have been a few cases where Intel tampered/interfered with these benches to increase their advantage or appearance of ( most cases were a while back and not likely evident in any recent benches), but the fact is: most of these benches favor Intel. Wait for it before you jump the gun. The reason is very apparent. Intel has the larger share of the market by far. Those benches were likely created on Intel and in no way were likely intentionally set to throttle AMD. Just the situation and environment of fact. No bad guys.

So I came to terms with the benches not really shining AMDs true potential. Then there is this bench. HWBOT Prime (if explained to me correctly) is compiled in a way to show equal chance and a fair true comparison. I don't think the single core crown is in jeopardy (as I understand that hasn't changed). But AMDs multicore potential and strong showing in these benches deserve recognition. Now the argument I see coming is "well you have 8 cores to Intels 4-6". Now enough of the claiming whatever justifies purchase/loyalty. Most AMD users concede the single core crown, Intel can do the same with multi-thread.

I get there are many instances of Intel showing strong numbers against AMD in multithread applications. But remember all these programs have been written on Intel Hardware. Now If you have been paying attention to AMD's latest moves, you may start to get the feeling that they are placing themselves in places to sway the software changes to their architecture. Their APU's are very attractive in the market and gaining a hefty amount of steam. Of course the software will be mostly gaming, but that will shift to other common day software and eventually to corporate/industrial software as well.

I have seen a lot of Intel Diehards lately mentioning that in recent years Intel has done little to impress. They have had little improvements in the way of future advancements, just rehash of their standing hardware. But AMD has made some improvements, the afore-mentioned APU's and less proven possible improvements in single core IPC (if I got the acronym right, very late here). So the results found thru this Benchmark may truly be the beginning. It may stir the curiousity of many to wonder and request more fair benches and true results so we may be better informed as to true potential.
post #2 of 89
Thread Starter 
Well My point of this thread was for some good discussion, but looks like I found the secret to Quieting the Intel fan base. thumb.gif
post #3 of 89
Lol sure dude

IPC performance is behind Intel so anything that isn't optomised for 8 cores and amds instruction set grts smashed by intel. This is apparent in daily and benching use. There's no intel paying off developers conspiracy here.

I'm also not a fan of anything, I go where the performance is.
post #4 of 89
He's right about attracting more attention from developers,that's for sure. There is no doubt 4+multi-threading will increase gradually.
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post #5 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjc_93 View Post

Lol sure dude

IPC performance is behind Intel so anything that isn't optomised for 8 cores and amds instruction set grts smashed by intel. This is apparent in daily and benching use. There's no intel paying off developers conspiracy here.

I'm also not a fan of anything, I go where the performance is.
Wow you clearly missed the point (and your reading comprehension needs work). I clearly stated in the first paragraph why Intel was leading the benches before and TODAY it was not due to malintent. This is why it is hard to have intelligent discussions. Stop and look at the post and read the intent and make an EDUCATED argument. Your few short comments are loaded.
post #6 of 89
Thread Starter 
Had a few minutes, but now I must thank you. You made another thought come to mind. Considering that most benching and software is coded using Intel (again nothing underhanded implied just fact common sense) the fact that AMD is able to keep close in some should show some signs of strength. They aren't designed for AMD or their structure. Kind of the point I was trying to make with HWBOT Prime. A what if, if you will. If you make everything fair and balanced in testing then what would be the results? Of course I would expect Intel to fair better in some being 28nm and way more funding in R&D, but I think you would see a bit more neck and neck than we see now.

BUT, I, unlike some in these threads, am reasonable and understand: at this current market and the presence of AMD being small, then why would they worry with coding for them directly. Just add in code after-the-fact to allow them to function and move on. It sucks but that is how it is. But remember what I said from my first post. I think AMD realizes this and has decided on the long term gain and is trying gain foothold in the software market: APUs. Forgive me it is early and cant quite remember, but the new CPU-GPU interface stuff (lol technical term). That will go a long way. And Intel does not lead that market and only stands to fall further behind as this is early for AMD and just before new architecture. So it will be interesting to see how these benching results change as code changes to meet the new wave in processors.
post #7 of 89
I think that the reality of the situation is that AMD's recent architecture is so different from the norm, that a lot of software doesn't scale with it nearly as well.

Instead of coding something to be 100% parallel, running on every single core just as it would any other core, it has to be coded to work with a module (shared cache and FPU with two integer clusters). You can't just run 8 instances of one thing or there's a chance to hit a bottleneck anytime something needs the cache or FPU. It really depends on what you're trying to do... If it's parallel but FPU/cache heavy, it's going to struggle with AMD's new architecture compared to Intel's.

Intel's Hyperthreading really only offers about 30% more performance on two threads than on on core. However, the IPC is so much higher on Intel chips right now, that processes generally finish quicker.

Additionally. because of AMD's relatively low marketshare, especially in the business sector, in many cases it's simply not worth coding for.
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post #8 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post

I think that the reality of the situation is that AMD's recent architecture is so different from the norm, that a lot of software doesn't scale with it nearly as well.

Instead of coding something to be 100% parallel, running on every single core just as it would any other core, it has to be coded to work with a module (shared cache and FPU with two integer clusters). You can't just run 8 instances of one thing or there's a chance to hit a bottleneck anytime something needs the cache or FPU. It really depends on what you're trying to do... If it's parallel but FPU/cache heavy, it's going to struggle with AMD's new architecture compared to Intel's.

Intel's Hyperthreading really only offers about 30% more performance on two threads than on on core. However, the IPC is so much higher on Intel chips right now, that processes generally finish quicker.

Additionally. because of AMD's relatively low marketshare, especially in the business sector, in many cases it's simply not worth coding for.
thank you for your intelligent response. Now if AMD increases it market share, a very viable outcome, then it will be interesting.

I wonder which architecture is actually easy to code for? If either have an advantage, like GCN with AMD GPUs.
post #9 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Well My point of this thread was for some good discussion, but looks like I found the secret to Quieting the Intel fan base. thumb.gif

Or we could simply ignore such a long wall of text presented without facts. When AMD decides to put out a compiler then we can talk.
post #10 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by GENiEBEN View Post

Or we could simply ignore such a long wall of text presented without facts. When AMD decides to put out a compiler then we can talk.

I'm pretty sure that's what HSA is trying to accomplish. wink.gif
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