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post #11 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GENiEBEN View Post

Or we could simply ignore such a long wall of text presented without facts. When AMD decides to put out a compiler then we can talk.
Well my god sooo much fun from this post. Where to start? Ok FACTS: well I did post a link that you could just click on ( I know it may be too strenuous but I promise it will do you a world of good) and my post was based on that link. But I gather from your tone that reading too may prove quite the endeavor. Oh wait this may turn into a WALL OF TEXT, sorry. OK last part: When AMD puts out a compiler. Hhmm, guess the afore mentioned difficulty in reading has left you inept of my posts point. So if you managed to make it this far thru my wall of text then I will let you know that the Bench is trying to be free of bias and favored compilers, a neutral bench if you will. Now please if anything learn this: If you cant add respectfully to a post then don't post within. If my wall of text was off-putting then move on. I had hoped for some discussion with those that know Intel well, for I do not. I know AMD and unlike most on either side I like to learn about each fully.

I do apologize for my second post there. was just trying to spur some debate and no one was posting just looking.
post #12 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by GENiEBEN View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Well My point of this thread was for some good discussion, but looks like I found the secret to Quieting the Intel fan base. thumb.gif

Or we could simply ignore such a long wall of text presented without facts. When AMD decides to put out a compiler then we can talk.

http://developer.amd.com/tools-and-sdks/cpu-development/x86-open64-compiler-suite/

Aww, there goes your argument. frown.gif
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post #13 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by GENiEBEN View Post

Or we could simply ignore such a long wall of text presented without facts. When AMD decides to put out a compiler then we can talk.

Funny stuff. Let me guess, you use Visual Studio only? SMH. Not only does AMD maintain a compiler, but they provide code to the GCC project for optimization. Even so, your argument is invalid, because it would be a mistake to use a processor specific compiler for an application that is being released. Why would you want to compile for a specific processor if, for example, you are writing a game? It makes a lot more sense to compile for good performance on as many machines as possible, unless your not into making money. As often, it comes down to us programmers writing good code and not being lazy. Multi-threading an application requires some more effort over single threaded, but the performance increase of multi over single is undeniable. Whatever processor brand the program is running on. AMD seems to have better multi-threading performance than comparable Intel chips. The benchmark in the OP happens to be a multi-threaded benchmark. Rather than ignoring the OP, why not run the benchmark on your Intel chip and compare? That will produce fact. It is a java application, It seems to be calling generically compiled C Libraries (For three OSes) with JNI or the like. A fair multi-platform, multi-threaded benchmark. A rare program no doubt.
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post #14 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyPresident View Post

Funny stuff. Let me guess, you use Visual Studio only? SMH. Not only does AMD maintain a compiler, but they provide code to the GCC project for optimization. Even so, your argument is invalid, because it would be a mistake to use a processor specific compiler for an application that is being released. Why would you want to compile for a specific processor if, for example, you are writing a game? It makes a lot more sense to compile for good performance on as many machines as possible, unless your not into making money. As often, it comes down to us programmers writing good code and not being lazy. Multi-threading an application requires some more effort over single threaded, but the performance increase of multi over single is undeniable. Whatever processor brand the program is running on. AMD seems to have better multi-threading performance than comparable Intel chips. The benchmark in the OP happens to be a multi-threaded benchmark. Rather than ignoring the OP, why not run the benchmark on your Intel chip and compare? That will produce fact. It is a java application, It seems to be calling generically compiled C Libraries (For three OSes) with JNI or the like. A fair multi-platform, multi-threaded benchmark. A rare program no doubt.
Congratulations you are the first to mention why it was getting the results it did. Didn't know if any one else would pick up on it. But that brings up an old argument from the Intel camp " You don't have 8 cores, you have 4cores/modules". Well there goes that argument.
post #15 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Congratulations you are the first to mention why it was getting the results it did. Didn't know if any one else would pick up on it. But that brings up an old argument from the Intel camp " You don't have 8 cores, you have 4cores/modules". Well there goes that argument.

To be fair, in ~90% of multithreaded applications, Intel's 4C/8T chips outperform AMD's 8 core chips. Take WPrime, for example. The best AMD FX submission is 137.46 seconds with an 8150 at 7.2GHz. This is matched by an i7 920 at 5.5GHz (137.374 seconds at nearly 2GHz slower!). The 3770K beats both of these with 109.937 seconds at 6.6GHz. I imagine the 4770K will take down the 3770K record but it hasn't happened yet. The best submission right now is 118.809 seconds at 6.1GHz.


Concerning the 4770K and the 8350 (at stock 4.2GHz on 8350 and 3.5GHz on 4770K):
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post

On the Anandtech comparison, the AMD chip wins in two benchmarks. The Intel chip wins in the other 31 benchmarks. The percent difference of victory by the 4770K ranges from 2.42% up to 52.82% with the average at 29.62%.

As I said earlier, a module is definitely stronger than a core + HT but it's also strangled for throughput in certain scenarios. Whether the 4770K wins because of it's IPC or because it is a better architecture for multithreaded applications is difficult to demonstrate.
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post #16 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyPresident View Post

Funny stuff. Let me guess, you use Visual Studio only? SMH. Not only does AMD maintain a compiler, but they provide code to the GCC project for optimization. Even so, your argument is invalid, because it would be a mistake to use a processor specific compiler for an application that is being released. Why would you want to compile for a specific processor if, for example, you are writing a game? It makes a lot more sense to compile for good performance on as many machines as possible, unless your not into making money. As often, it comes down to us programmers writing good code and not being lazy. Multi-threading an application requires some more effort over single threaded, but the performance increase of multi over single is undeniable. Whatever processor brand the program is running on. AMD seems to have better multi-threading performance than comparable Intel chips. The benchmark in the OP happens to be a multi-threaded benchmark. Rather than ignoring the OP, why not run the benchmark on your Intel chip and compare? That will produce fact. It is a java application, It seems to be calling generically compiled C Libraries (For three OSes) with JNI or the like. A fair multi-platform, multi-threaded benchmark. A rare program no doubt.
Was not aware that a linux compiler is relevant when main platform is -insert guess here- I wont agree with you when it comes to generic compile, it wont hurt to make packages for multiple archs,Let the user select what runs best for him.
PS, QT with MingW over VS thanks.
post #17 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Congratulations you are the first to mention why it was getting the results it did. Didn't know if any one else would pick up on it. But that brings up an old argument from the Intel camp " You don't have 8 cores, you have 4cores/modules". Well there goes that argument.

To be fair, in ~90% of multithreaded applications, Intel's 4C/8T chips outperform AMD's 8 core chips. Take WPrime, for example. The best AMD FX submission is 137.46 seconds with an 8150 at 7.2GHz. This is matched by an i7 920 at 5.5GHz (137.374 seconds at nearly 2GHz slower!). The 3770K beats both of these with 109.937 seconds at 6.6GHz. I imagine the 4770K will take down the 3770K record but it hasn't happened yet. The best submission right now is 118.809 seconds at 6.1GHz.


Concerning the 4770K and the 8350 (at stock 4.2GHz on 8350 and 3.5GHz on 4770K):
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post

On the Anandtech comparison, the AMD chip wins in two benchmarks. The Intel chip wins in the other 31 benchmarks. The percent difference of victory by the 4770K ranges from 2.42% up to 52.82% with the average at 29.62%.

As I said earlier, a module is definitely stronger than a core + HT but it's also strangled for throughput in certain scenarios. Whether the 4770K wins because of it's IPC or because it is a better architecture for multithreaded applications is difficult to demonstrate.

Damn Module design... makes the 8350 a "6.4 core" when fully loaded. (actually accurate number is Cinebench)

Can't wait to see what Steamroller does about that with the new decode units. Even if the single thread performance gain is minimal, getting back all that lost multi-threading power will be good for me. biggrin.gif
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post #18 of 89
I'm always excited to see what both camps have to bring out, I just try not to get too hopeful or anticipate it too much. They've both demonstrated recently that they're very capable of disappointing.
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post #19 of 89
Delete. That meme was in bad taste whistle.gif
Edited by FunkyPresident - 6/7/13 at 8:26pm
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post #20 of 89
Thread Starter 
I prefer the fair debate, one without bias and a clear view of the truth. A few of you thus far have given that and I thank you. There will always be the few, sometimes seems like multitudes in some threads, that have to give ignorant responses devoid of much substance. But even then I find that it helps me derive more insight and give more questions that I would like to understand better.

Mostly with this bench HWBOT Prime, it gave credence to what I wondered all along, were these benches and tests true markers of each camps true potential. Knowing certain facts of Intels market superiority and what that would mean for everything after: software design, left me wondering how accurate these benches could show AMD's potential. First I understand these benches reflect real world programming, al-be-it to an extreme, and when one is choosing hardware these benches are relevant. In that regard AMD is behind Intel. But for a moment consider this: AMD and Intel do not have a common structure. I seriously doubt Intel is going to hand out their structure and design to anybody. And AMD isn't likely to hand out theirs. Being that they are different then one would not expect either to run optimum on the others compilers or software designed for that manufactures hardware. So one might expect that a bench compiled for AMD would render Intel inept, whether it is to the same degree as AMD falls to Intel on their benches, One can only speculate. That is why I say with Cinebench, which is common knowledge heavily favors Intel, it is a good bench for AMD but only as far as to compare it to itself. You can still compare to Intel and gauge your progress but I doubt AMD is going to ever win that fight, using Intel based benches that is.

So have it. What do you think?
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