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post #51 of 89
Luckily when that major one collapsed a while back (really don't mean to trivialize it for anyone, sorry if I did), they started building a new I-90 innerbelt here in Cleveland. Trucks aren't allowed to drive on the old one in the meantime...

However our water system is about the age of the automobile. Every few years a main breaks downtown and nearly drowns people.
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post #52 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

However our water system is about the age of the automobile. Every few years a main breaks downtown and nearly drowns people.

My dissertation was on using water hammer (a shock wave) to detect and classify leaks in pipes. The target market was the water industry, as, in some parts of the UK, a third of all potable water is lost to leaks.

Also:
Quote:
More than half the mains below London are reckoned to be over 100 years old. One third are over 150 years old. The picture is similar in many other major cities in the UK.
Source

That is how bad the infrastructure is in the UK.
Edited by GingerJohn - 6/3/13 at 9:58am
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post #53 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

My dissertation was on using water hammer (a shock wave) to detect and classify leaks in pipes. The target market was the water industry, as, in some parts of the UK, a third of all potable water is lost to leaks

Isn't there a chance of causing catastrophic failure with that method?
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post #54 of 89
Went to the article and checked out the link to the sufficiency rating numbers. Either that site is missing a ton of numbers or 196 of 612 bridges in the county I was born in in Ohio have a rating of 0.0. I'm guessing they are missing because there is a bridge that is listed as being built in 1918 and last reconstructed in 1959. It was just finished being reconstructed in the fall.

My favorite though is one with a rating of 49.6. The "bridge" is a tube under an intersection that a creek flows through.
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

That, or the money is more easily embezzled. Here in Cleveland they finally started to rebuild the roads downtown, after a major inside bidding scheme for construction was uncovered. Now they're all in jail and whaddya know. I forget the names of the guilty though.

At least that is better than Detroit. Until recently it was more amazing when money wasn't embezzled and the names of the guilty is just "everybody". Wish I was joking. A homeless shelter wasn't able to open last year because the entity in charge of it spent the money on $200 trash cans that had a sensor so they open for you. Also, nice new furniture and country club memberships. You don't even want to know what happened with the schools. Last I knew was over 80 individual charges made since 2009 and the DPS went from over $100M in surplus around 2002 to a debt of around $327M in 2009.

The good news? The only semi-recent bridge collapse around Detroit I know of was because a full gas tanker crashed and burst into flames under it. Michigan's problem with bridges is more along the lots of money spent for no reason and never completed anywhere near on time *cough*Zilwaukee*cough* area of failure.
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post #55 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Isn't there a chance of causing catastrophic failure with that method?

Slim, but highly unlikely. Basically the piping would have to be at the point of failure to start with as the shock wave did not carry all that much power.

The method we were using to generate the shock wave was to open a valve and then rapidly shut it (once, not repeatedly). We the listened to the echo coming back.
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post #56 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

Slim, but highly unlikely. Basically the piping would have to be at the point of failure to start with as the shock wave did not carry all that much power.

The method we were using to generate the shock wave was to open a valve and then rapidly shut it (once, not repeatedly). We the listened to the echo coming back.

What about ultrasound? To what distance does that give an accurate reading?

edit: 2 separate questions...
Edited by un-midas touch - 6/3/13 at 10:15am
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post #57 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

What about ultrasound? To what distance does that give an accurate reading?
edit: 2 separate questions...

Well the two questions kind of roll into one...

Ultra sound takes more effort to generate the same "volume" and therefore doesn't travel as far. With the shock wave we were looking at (theoretical) distances of up to ~500m in good conditions based on models and lab tests. Over that distance we could accurately detect pipe features such as bends, T's and leaks as each had a characteristic echo signature.

I never got a chance to do a live test of the system, I left at the point when we had a working prototype to field test. Up to then we just had a scale version in the lab which used a a couple of hundred meters of small bore pipe.
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post #58 of 89
Thread Starter 
I used to work for the local waterboard. I never used to do it but we had some guys that used to go arround and prod the ground with a metal spike and it gave them a reading that helped them to determine leaks. We used have critical Pressure Reducing Valves that always required maintenance and they were so fragile that if you made the smallest mistake you would blow water mains and have the boss ring ya!!! weirdsmiley.gif
post #59 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seid Dark View Post

Usually collapses like this happen in poor and corrupt third world hellholes, I guess USA is not any better. They don't have or don't want to use tax dollars for inspecting and repairing bridges and roads before they crumble.

yep. amen to that. a good example is the country where my taxes go.
i've never imagined things like this happens to the US
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post #60 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

but if we maintain our infrastructure so that it doesn't randomly collapse, we might have to raise taxes on the wealthy very, very slightly

As if "the wealthy" (which is a term that almost no one can agree on) use a bridge any more than "the poor" right? rolleyes.gif

The simple fact of the matter is, in a country that is as large as the USA, which is about the size of all of Europe, accidents are bound to happen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

For the record, that bridge collapsed because a truck that was too high tried to go under it. It didn't just fall down tongue.gif.

How dare you bring logic into this thread? Don't you know that people like perfectblade are trying to make a political statement about how "OTHER PEOPLE" should pay higher taxes so he can have nice things?
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 6/3/13 at 11:43am
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