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[CNET] Windows 8 vies with Vista, but Windows 7 gains - Page 18

post #171 of 329
I almost think that the metro UI should've been made for mobile and Home Win8 and should be optional on Win8 Pro and not available at all in Win8 Enterprise. This way, the UI is available for those who will get the most use out of it and not in the way for business and other applications where its really not necessary. If they were offered in different SKU's like this then I believe Win8 would be much more popular while allowing people who like the UI to enjoy it and those who don't to avoid it. In fact, a shrewd way for MS to have done this would've been to offer the Home and mobile versions at a significant cost savings over Pro and Enterprise. That way, you are incentivising people to give your UI a chance without forcing them to use it...
post #172 of 329
Win8 had legitimate issues, that's why the adoption rate is low. People are not going spend money to use an inferior interface on desktop, even if there are other under the hood improvements that may not even be noticeable.
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post #173 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven Dizzle View Post

I've never called anyone wrong as per their opinion. Unless exaggerate and say crackpot things like "DESKTOP IS A METRO APP OMG" or "THE WHOLE INTERFACE HAS CHANGED", which are wrong, you'll never hear me say anyone is wrong. I will however say that you haters are making a huge deal out of a change that isn't that big. You're like the lifeless sponges who wanted to sue Bioware because they didn't like the ending to Mass Effect 3.

It's no wonder companies like Microsoft and game publishers don't listen to you. You have a sense of entitlement and superiority that can't be matched. Grow the crap up and get over yourselves. thumb.gif

Maybe not directly, but it is certainly not fact that Windows 8 is better. Yep, we all just convinced ourselves we don't like Metro, it's not that we actually dislike it and find it slows us down or anything at all. rolleyes.gif

And again, even though he said that the negatives are the same ones he noticed while using it, he's "reading far too much into what is said here by a select few who are afraid of change."

There's more, but directly saying "Your opinion is wrong" is definitely not the only way to mean it, and if you're not meaning it you should really be more careful with how your post can be interpreted.

As for saying crackpot things...How does 8 run say, Chrome, faster than 7? Or well, nearly anything? The speed differences are literally 5% at most, you'd likely gain more performance by installing faster RAM and going to Haswell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

Your programs are in large big tiles. You can choose what to add/remove and where. There's no longer the semi-random "most recent" menu that you had in the start button. I don't really see how people call it more productive when the majority of people use their desktop or search option to launch programs. Which are still present in 8.

Uh...Have you even used Windows 7? You do know you can pin programs to the start menu in order, right? You choose what to add/remove and where, and get jump lists which is something Metro lost.
This is in ClassicShell on my laptop, but Windows 7 is exactly the same:
kPJSJVO.png

I haven't bothered to clean up my most recent apps list and I haven't finished installing other programs (Photoshop, etc) yet but you can clearly see there's two separate lists, top being pinned applications and bottom being recent apps...I could completely disable the recent apps too if I wanted to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

It takes a bit of tinkering but your access to apps is simplified to swipes and clicks. I see your point about MS apps, and imo they need to revamp their messenger to be more interface friendly with other browsers like Chrome and IE.

...It was already pretty simple to access apps and the like, move mouse to icon, click. I don't see how having gestures, etc is any kind of improvement, nor do I see any real major difference in either of my 8 installs vs 7 99.9% of the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

You can still use those things can't you? The taskbar is still there, the only thing changed is the Start menu, that literally makes things big and obvious, but somehow people complain about being "unable" to use it.

Except I use the Start Menu to launch most of my programs, in the picture above see those little arrows? Jump lists, I can (For example) jump straight into my savedpositions.txt for SAMP when I want to get co-ordinates for spawning new cars, etc on my server rather than opening Notepad/Notepad++ in Metro, either going to the recent files and opening it or having to find where the actual file is...It's slower than 7 either way in that regard, sometimes drastically so depending on the situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

We can't? I was under the impression you just can't add the start button. The personalization windows is still there, and all of the customizations is still there I think. I'll check once I get back from work.

No, you can't. You still have high contrast themes but they're just different colours of the normal Metro skin, no classic Win95 style shell or Aero at all. I just checked on my laptop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

That's true, I don't use a touch screen either, but I can see the obvious advantage in just "scrolling" your pointer to left or right to move it. Apple has also done many things like that with their touchpad on Macs. Apple fans laud this feature a lot and I do see it's advantages. I feel that swiping your mouse left or right is easier than using arrow keys. Heck there's a scroll wheel on the mouse simply to simulate that action. I feel this feature needs more work and support to make 8 even more efficient.

It's useful for touchpads, but considering 81% of the market is desktops...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

Isn't it only 15$? I got it for free from my Uni, but I find that the time I spend on learning the shortcuts does pay off. That said, if Windows 8 is intergrated and recieved better, then it'll just naturally take over the eco system. We all had to learn how to use Windows 7 and it's many shortcuts at one point. Hell, most users don't even use hotkeys. I feel Windows 8 encourages Hotkey usage without being intrusive about it. Now I realize that the UI is not everyone's cup of tea. I realize that many don't like change and simply want free massive updates that slims down and make the OS more efficient and secure. I really feel that Windows 8 offers a lot over it's predecessor to warrant the upgrade. If others don't agree, that's fine but It's not like anyone is forcing Windows 8 on anyone. WIndows 7 is still available and I'm pretty sure that many boutiques probably even offer it as the stock OS.

It was only $15, and I got it when that deal was on (Never got charged too, so I got it for free effectively.)

The difference was nearly all of the changes in Windows 7 were self-explanatory or incremental and made sense from the perspective of an XP or Vista user, same with going to XP from 95 or 98, a lot of the changes in 8 really don't gel well, and I know I'm not the only person to say it feels like two separate OS' at times.

The problem with that argument (As I have said to plenty of people who keep posting it) is that your average joe is forced into Windows 8...They can't install a copy of Windows, they don't know how and as such, when their new laptop comes with 8? Well, yeah, even if they wanted to fork out money for a copy of 7, they'd at least be paying someone to install it. on top of that

(By the way, it's good to have an actual discussion about 8's flaws and benefits as opposed to the usual crap that goes on)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

The cost of Windows 8 is about $80 USD for an upgrade/OEM copy now unless you are in the small number that can get university, employer, or partner discounts. The question I always ask of people who are OK with, or even like, Windows 8 is, "Would you pay $80 for an application that added the Start Screen functionality to Windows 7?" The overwhelming answer is no.

Of course if you are in the know about it, you will know that there are some security enhancements in Windows 8, but really that is it. I've observed that that the boot time will be noticeably faster on Windows 8 off of a HDD, but if you got Windows 7 and 8 on SSDs the difference is so tiny that you will be talking a second or two at the most. Unless you consider the new App store or the new task manager awesome features...there is nothing else that is much of a change. The price tag is just not worth it. XP to Vista/7 was an amazing upgrade...Vista/7 to Windows 8...you just don't gain much and depending on your personal likes you may be getting a downgrade.

The only thing I don't like is that I have to organize my own Start Screen...I don't think I ever edited a Start Menu in earlier version of Windows...if I did it was just one thing here and there. Other than that...I kind of like it, but then I am a hot key fanatic and I like the new search function looking at everything, but it would nice if I didn't have to touch my mouse to change between search result types. However, I got it free via my employer's MSDN account. No way would have paid even $15 for it...not even a penny. In fact the next time I format my system drive I will probably just go back to 7 since I don't find Windows 8 to even be worth the extra few minutes of setup time (though I don't know if that is true...I have a system image and snap shots of my Windows 8 all setup with all my usual software...so it isn't hard to put it on again.)

Exactly. It's not a bad OS, and yes you can install 3rd party software to fix its biggest flaw and get a nice OS that's slightly better than 7...But the benefits really aren't worth the time or the money required to buy and install it, hence the "slightly" part.
    
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post #174 of 329
Brutuz, I love how you explain that you can pin apps into the start menu in Win7 like its so great but then totally disregard that that is the main functionality of the metro screen. In fact, in Win8 you can not only just pin apps into the start screen, you can also create different categories and pin them any way you personally choose to. I love the organization that I am able to utilize in the metro screen and I know exactly where everything I use is because I, you know, set it up myself. I never once used jump lists in the first place.

Honestly I really don't understand why you are so addicted to these Win8 threads? We get it, you don't like Win8. That's your opinion and you aren't convincing anybody that likes Win8 that they are wrong, so why do you spend massive amounts of time on these long, multi-quote responses in every Win8 thread? You are so worried about saving a couple seconds here and there with stupid jump lists but spend literally hours writing massive replies in every Win8 thread you find trying to force people with different opinions than you to admit that their opinions are wrong... rolleyes.gif
post #175 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Honestly I really don't understand why you are so addicted to these Win8 threads? We get it, you don't like Win8. That's your opinion and you aren't convincing anybody that likes Win8 that they are wrong, so why do you spend massive amounts of time on these long, multi-quote responses in every Win8 thread? You are so worried about saving a couple seconds here and there with stupid jump lists but spend literally hours writing massive replies in every Win8 thread you find trying to force people with different opinions than you to admit that their opinions are wrong... rolleyes.gif

Maybe because every time he posts, he gets replies.... from you.

whistle.gif
 
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post #176 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

That's not the reason for bad Windows 8 adoption. You know what is? Media. Media that has no bloody clue what they are talking about. Ever since launch I have been incredibly disappointed by the way the community received the new OS. Especially OCN. I honestly expected a much more mature reception from OCN. I was under the impression that we're not sheep that follow the media response around, yet apparently we are. Windows 8 in fact simplifies and increases productivity. Apps and programs are streamlined more than ever. You literally have big tiles for the most important things you use. The amount of customization you are offered in the start menu is unmatched by anything Microsoft has ever offered before. Swipe gestures and mechanics introduced are simple. The only complaint anyone can make is that it's not intuitive and there is a bit of learning curve. I've been on Windows 8 for around two months now and I can honestly say that while I came at it in a wrong way(a negative OCN type because I thought the community had a point) but I very quickly discovered at how much superior Microsoft 8 can be. Especially due to the customization of the Start menu and the new search function.

Screw CNET. Screw Engadget, Vergee, everything else that gave Windows 8 a stupid review because they didn't "like" it. Exactly why we can't trust review sites these days. Too biased and too obsessed with view counts.


The bold part made me lmao lachen.gif And that is fine. Opinions are good. They help in decisions, but are not rules to follow. I gave 2 desktops and 3 laptops to 12 people to try out windows 8. 3 of them are gamers with decent hardware, and 9 are just your average Joes and Janes, including my father and sister. After about 4 months of evaluating I got my answers. The 3 gamers didn't care much about it. No real performance gains, annoying interface, rather spend money on hardware/games. They liked the new task manager though rolleyes.gif The other 9 REALLY didn't care about it. Few liked the Facebook and email integration, the weather app, the new office works with windows 8 a little bit better, but that's about it. Now in my opinion, those 9 are where the issues lie, because this is where the majority of consumers exist. Now how do you expect these people to purchase it when they don't even care about it? Remember that these are not tech savvy people, meaning that it probably took them a while to learn their current os. They're used to their setting. Now you have to tell them that they have to adapt to this interface, if they don't like it they can't change it to classic, if they want to they need to spend money on 3rd party application, they'll have to pay upwards of $80 for it, probably pay money for someone to install it and all of their application, and show them how to use it. Right there is when they pretty much are going to tell you to get lost. Why? Because it is unnecessary. It is not needed. 7 does everything they want. Can I watch/download/burn movies on 7? Yes. Can I do all that with music too? Yes. Can I use the internet to check my mail, Facebook, and pay bills? Yes. Can I purchase/sell stuff? Yes. Pron? No problem. Why do I need to spend $80 on 8 again? You don't. Oh ok. Look my friend is at Starbucks! Are we done? Yes. Okthnxbai!
    
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post #177 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezman View Post

Maybe because every time he posts, he gets replies.... from you.

whistle.gif

Lol, I post in maybe 1/5 all the Win8 threads I read and its usually in response to simply false info about the OS. Or in the case of my previous post here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I almost think that the metro UI should've been made for mobile and Home Win8 and should be optional on Win8 Pro and not available at all in Win8 Enterprise. This way, the UI is available for those who will get the most use out of it and not in the way for business and other applications where its really not necessary. If they were offered in different SKU's like this then I believe Win8 would be much more popular while allowing people who like the UI to enjoy it and those who don't to avoid it. In fact, a shrewd way for MS to have done this would've been to offer the Home and mobile versions at a significant cost savings over Pro and Enterprise. That way, you are incentivising people to give your UI a chance without forcing them to use it...

To reiterate what I've said all along that Win8 should offer an option of whether to use metro or not. See I actually care about the opinions of others...
post #178 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4nderer View Post

The ribbon in Windows Explorer is one of my favorite enhancements in Windows 8. It places many commonly used settings that were once buried in dialog boxes and menus just a click away. That, combined with the new power menu accessed by Win+X, make Windows 8 a fantastic upgrade for a power user.

The old File Manager that I've been using since the early 90s is still better than Windows Explorer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

I honestly expected a much more mature reception from OCN. I was under the impression that we're not sheep that follow the media response around, yet apparently we are. Windows 8 in fact simplifies and increases productivity.

All of my opinions regarding Windows 8 were formed by my personal use of it, not media, and I disagree with your assessment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheonix777z View Post

So you're running Windows 8?

What exactly is your problem with it? I have found it to be really fast, nice security features. Boots up quick, games run excellent, drivers just install no fuss (Had loads of probs with Nvidia drivers not installing on Windows 7.

Is their a real reason you don't like Windows 8?

For me, security is at best an irrelevancy, at worst a liability. Boot times are also irrelevant. The other factors you mention I could say about Windows 2000, XP, XP x64, Server 2003, 7, and Server 2008 R2. Indeed, Windows 8 reacts the least well of all of these to modified drivers.

My disinterest/dislike for Windows 8 is that it changes a UI I was comfortable to something I am not, introduces new security nagware and hurdles, while not benefiting anything I do to any perceptible extent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

How many times have people come in here expressing their misinformed hate, only to be shown that they were wrong? I'm talking about factually wrong, not opinionated wrong.

Happens all the time, but it's far from universal, and many people who have given the OS/interface a chance just don't like it.
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post #179 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

The old File Manager that I've been using since the early 90s is still better than Windows Explorer.

Yeah, I've been using computers since the days of 5.25" floppy disks and MS-DOS. Are you talking about winfile.exe from Windows 3.1 (and later Windows NT)?

Just, no.
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post #180 of 329
My conclusion of this thread: The god of light will hate me if a bash W8 thinking.gif
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