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[Daily Mail]Evidence of the existence of 'multiverse' revealed for the first time by cosmic map - Page 5

post #41 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane2207 View Post

This always keeps me entertained, and props to the person that had the dedication to dig though all of this:

http://www.anorak.co.uk/288298/scare-stories/the-daily-mails-list-of-things-that-give-you-cancer-from-a-to-z.html/

There is actually a song about it. I can't post it though because it has swearing in. All you need to do is type in "dailymail song" into youtube and click on the second one.
    
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post #42 of 225
@thread

I remember reading somewhere that the expansion of our universe was in fact accelerating, i.e. the rate at which the galaxies were moving apart was actually increasing. Assuming that the effect of the big bang on planetary systems would remain constant if no other force was applied - i.e. the rate at which the universe expanded increased to a certain velocity and then held - then logic tells us that if the rate at which our universe expands has actually increased, then that must be caused by either

a) an expansion of force at the site of the big bang, i.e. a second big bang or

b) the rim of our universe, by virtue of expansion, has come close enough to something with enough mass to pull our universe towards it, thereby increasing the rate of expansion.

Here is one source that covers the topic (they look at quantum vacuums as possible explanation).
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post #43 of 225
Thread Starter 
But hey it turns out to be as legit as any other theoretical physics thread. So I think I'm coming out ahead in this one.

edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by parityboy View Post

@thread

I remember reading somewhere that the expansion of our universe was in fact accelerating, i.e. the rate at which the galaxies were moving apart was actually increasing. Assuming that the effect of the big bang on planetary systems would remain constant if no other force was applied - i.e. the rate at which the universe expanded increased to a certain velocity and then held - then logic tells us that if the rate at which our universe expands has actually increased, then that must be caused by either

a) an expansion of force at the site of the big bang, i.e. a second big bang or

b) the rim of our universe, by virtue of expansion, has come close enough to something with enough mass to pull our universe towards it, thereby increasing the rate of expansion.

Here is one source that covers the topic (they look at quantum vacuums as possible explanation).

You're talking about dark energy?
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post #44 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

I wonder what the "gold" is...

Well, it was in Australia back in the 1850s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftstealth View Post

Hmph. This discovery could have a major effect on mankind of properly proven. And how it is taken. On one hand, we could possibly find ways to other universes and expand our species. But on the other hand many may give up in the loss of faith in their religion. Very interesting.

Most likely ignore or adapt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvjessen View Post


Well, calling it 'Hard Evidence' to prove a theory of a multiverse is certainly not very scientific. Even when Einstein predicted the offset in the position of stars around the sun due to the suns mass when taking a picture during an eclipse wasn't hard evidence, it was only good evidence to support his theories and show they were able to predict the positions.

If there is hard evidence that would mean it isn't a theory anymore, but actual indisputable fact. The existence of atoms used to be a theory, but today we have hard evidence, e.g. we can actually view them in the highest resolution microscopes.

It still is a theory. So is (I believe) the laws of thermodynamics among other things...Why? Because our current explanations could be completely wrong for all we know, and we won't know for sure. Something always can come along and shake a theory up.
But while they still can almost be entirely provable, it's better to assume it's a theory. See: Flat Earth, scientists realized their model had to get more and more convoluted to even come close to fitting reality as they discovered more...But at one point, it probably did fit what they knew fairly well. (ie. There's plenty of stars, and those few oddly coloured ones move...Oh wait! They're now planets! etc)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvjessen View Post

IMO there is a huge difference between observing the actual thing and observing something theorized to be evidence for something else.

We're yet to observe Atoms, just the shells they have.

What we have now is like if you find skidmarks in your street, you're not observing the car but you know it was there. (To use a probably somewhat incorrect analogy)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane2207 View Post

This always keeps me entertained, and props to the person that had the dedication to dig though all of this:

http://www.anorak.co.uk/288298/scare-stories/the-daily-mails-list-of-things-that-give-you-cancer-from-a-to-z.html/

Read the topic, links to better sources were posted.
Edited by Brutuz - 6/3/13 at 3:51pm
    
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post #45 of 225
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Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

It is hard for the average human being to gasp at the possibility of a concept called 'endless' and 'infinite'...

I'm not sure what it is that make me "average" but certainly when I try to fathom the infinite vast void of space it boggles my mind, and I'm sure their are "above average" humans who struggle with it as well.
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post #46 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

It still is a theory. So is (I believe) the laws of thermodynamics among other things...Why? Because our current explanations could be completely wrong for all we know, and we won't know for sure. Something always can come along and shake a theory up.
But while they still can almost be entirely provable, it's better to assume it's a theory. See: Flat Earth, scientists realized their model had to get more and more convoluted to even come close to fitting reality as they discovered more...But at one point, it probably did fit what they knew fairly well. (ie. There's plenty of stars, and those few oddly coloured ones move...Oh wait! They're now planets! etc)
We're yet to observe Atoms, just the shells they have.

I am not speculating on the makeup of an atom, it could be little frogs spinning around a marble, for all I know, but it's hard to dispute that atoms exist. Anyway, this is besides my original point that this article is sensationalistic rubbish. I find it curious that so many people choose to defend this article.

Hard evidence in my world means indisputable. And indisputable must mean that it's a final proof. then surely Hard Evidence and a something like a theory on a multiverse does not belong in the same paragraph.
post #47 of 225
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by motherpuncher View Post

I'm not sure what it is that make me "average" but certainly when I try to fathom the infinite vast void of space it boggles my mind, and I'm sure their are "above average" humans who struggle with it as well.

I try and ponder infinity and boundlessness. But the only concept that comes out when I do is, "I can go there but I can't get there." I think my brain wants me to stop thinking so much.

edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvjessen View Post

I am not speculating on the makeup of an atom, it could be little frogs spinning around a marble, for all I know, but it's hard to dispute that atoms exist. Anyway, this is besides my original point that this article is sensationalistic rubbish. I find it curious that so many people choose to defend this article.

Hard evidence in my world means indisputable. And indisputable must mean that it's a final proof. then surely Hard Evidence and a something like a theory on a multiverse does not belong in the same paragraph.

If the phrase you're looking for is "beyond a reasonable doubt," then you're doing science wrong. In science, all doubts are unreasonable until proven. As all theories are reasonable until "un"proven. There's no "aquittal due to lack of evidence," because ideas don't have a "right to a speedy trial" (I'm not trying to sound condescending, this is all just a metaphor).
Edited by un-midas touch - 6/3/13 at 4:45pm
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post #48 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

If the phrase you're looking for is "beyond a reasonable doubt," then you're doing science wrong. In science, all doubts are unreasonable until proven. As all theories are reasonable until "un"proven. There's no "aquittal due to lack of evidence," because ideas don't have a right to a speedy trial (I'm not trying to sound condescending, this is all just a metaphor).

Not sure I understand, but to clarify, my argument is that the term "Hard Evidence" used in the article equals to "Indisputable".
post #49 of 225
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvjessen View Post

Not sure I understand, but to clarify, my argument is that the term "Hard Evidence" used in the article equals to "Indisputable".

Yes yes bad source I apologize for my hastiness. Look at post #18 where the sources match content with tone properly.

edit: but to be clear, in my mind hard evidence meant "tangible," as in existing in the real observable (don't no one start that philosophical thing up either) world. Not indisputable.
Edited by un-midas touch - 6/3/13 at 5:00pm
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post #50 of 225
I would be interested to see what qualifications you all have for even debating this sort of thing. As far as I know, all you guys learned to talk like this from watching Big Bang Theory and are now trying to emulate your new favorite TV personality. Don't take that to mean that laypeople can't discuss things of more importance than what Mr and Mrs Jones did last night, but some of you guys are getting into this debate pretty intensely to be purely spectators.

First: This article proves nothing. This article was not meant to prove anything. That is why they call it Theoretical Physics. You can believe whatever you want. Keep in mind believing in multiverse theory based on this finding is quantifiable to believing in the existence of demons and ghosts because you heard something knocking on your walls last night.

Second: For everyone contemplating the infinite, stop now. Especially those trying to give meaning to it. Infinity has no meaning besides an endless cold nothingness. Your brain will always try to place boundaries on things because that is all we know. "Somewhere you can go but will never reach" is a very poetic way of putting it, although technically we are already infinite, our bodies just don't realize it yet. We have forced ourselves into a box known as mortality and have, over time, forgotten the way out.

Third: In the end, it doesn't matter whether or not there are multiple universes or just one. Unless, of course, this research will help me get my space mining corporation off the ground, in which case I am all for it!

Fourth: I have no substantiated scientific background to understand the math that went into this theory or to be questioning, disagreeing, or agreeing with any findings. All of my musing are of a purely theoretical and metaphysical background. As above, so below.
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