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[TechReport] Future Pentiums, Celerons to be Atom-based - Page 3

post #21 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Sorry, I should have been more specific.... two core architectures.

Sandy Bridge E is obvious the SB microarchitecture.
Ivy Bridge E is obvious the IVB microarchitecture.

Xeon, Core, Pentium, and Celeron all use the same "big" core architectures today.

It doesn't really feel right to lump Xeon, SBE, IBE, in with the current pentium and celeron chips.
They have different levels of cache, TDP, instruction sets, uses, memory controllers(?).....
But apparently "tomorrow" they'll all be ATOM based.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle View Post

Oh yes, classic Atom CPUs were/are HORRIBLE. Much like you, I experienced an Atom-powered netbook once and it was absolutely painful. Internet Explorer must have taken 30 seconds just to draw on the screen.

That being said, Silvermont is the first real new revision, and it's a major one. If nothing else, going from an in-order to an out-of-order design should yield a significant boost in performance. "Big" Atom cores will probably deliver a passable experience for low-end laptop and desktop users. I wouldn't ever want to have to work on one, however.

Apparently the major problem with older ATOM processors was their "in order" design instead of the typical "out of order" design.
Sure they had low cache and low clock speeds...but that in order bit made it a true nightmare.
I imagine that the processors in smart phones are quite similar to older ATOM processors (clock speed and cache)....except they use an in order design and are no where near as slow.
Edited by Cancer - 6/6/13 at 10:22am
    
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post #22 of 43
Built my wife a new desktop with a Celeron G1610 in it with an SSD boot drive and 4GB of RAM. For a basic PC, its a little speed demon. Boots almost as fast as my sig rig and for her use, everything is running nice and smooth. Plus the big advantage to this way of doing things is that if I need a better CPU down the road I'm sitting on LGA1155 with an H61 chipset so I can grab an i5 or i7 if need be.

I doubt with this change that they will start to socket the Atoms, which is the only way I would get behind this move. Without a socketed and removable CPU, they can go home and forget about me using them for low power PCs especially given the current APU market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

I still have a working original Atom netbook. tongue.gif
Same here tongue.gif
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post #23 of 43
Oh... goodie. rolleyessmileyanim.gif
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post #24 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cancer View Post

It doesn't really feel right to lump Xeon, SBE, IBE, in with the current pentium and celeron chips.
They have different levels of cache, TDP, instruction sets, uses, memory controllers(?).....
But apparently "tomorrow" they'll all be ATOM based.
Most standard Xeons are actually cut from the same wafer as Pentium and Celerons.

The -E, -EN, -EP, and -EX CPUs are different dies but they use virtually the same logical blocks.

The different levels of cache is just via laser cutting.
TDP differences is due to binning and feature locks.
Instruction sets are locked due to either microcode or laser cuts.
How a CPU is used does not change what a CPU is.
Memory controllers are generally the same... additional features may be cut.


Again, Intel has two primary CPU lines.... small (Atom) and everything else (Xeon, Core, Pentium, Celeron) as of today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cancer View Post

Apparently the major problem with older ATOM processors was their "in order" design instead of the typical "out of order" design.
Sure they had low cache and low clock speeds...but that in order bit made it a true nightmare.
I imagine that the processors in smart phones are quite similar to older ATOM processors (clock speed and cache)....except they use an in order design and are no where near as slow.
It was not a "problem". It was a design decision. OOP requires more transistors for the path prediction so it increases cost and power consumption.

The true problems with the intial Atom are actually:
1) Intel paired them with an ancient chipset at the time. The chipset used more than twice as much power as of the CPU.
2) Intel paired them with an terrible IGP. With no off-load and acceleration, the CPU had to do much more work. This was exacerbated since they were used for media consumption devices.

Actually, current Atoms are still competive against recent ARM CPUs in terms of power consumption and performance. A 1C/2T Atom Saltwell can beat 2C/2T ARM Cortex-A9. The two issues above are what really gave Atoms a terrible name.
Edited by DuckieHo - 6/6/13 at 11:41am
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post #25 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle View Post

Oh yes, classic Atom CPUs were/are HORRIBLE. Much like you, I experienced an Atom-powered netbook once and it was absolutely painful. Internet Explorer must have taken 30 seconds just to draw on the screen.

That being said, Silvermont is the first real new revision, and it's a major one. If nothing else, going from an in-order to an out-of-order design should yield a significant boost in performance. "Big" Atom cores will probably deliver a passable experience for low-end laptop and desktop users. I wouldn't ever want to have to work on one, however.

My main PC died and now I am on an Atom Z520.

Its terrible, atleast it can do some basic things, I doubt I can even run NES emulator and I can only dream running ePSX emulator.

I can only watch 240p videos on youtube.
post #26 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampirr View Post

My main PC died and now I am on an Atom Z520.

Its terrible, atleast it can do some basic things, I doubt I can even run NES emulator and I can only dream running ePSX emulator.

I can only watch 240p videos on youtube.


Considering a 2.2 pentium 4 was faster,I feel for you.
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post #27 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

It was not a "problem". It was a design decision. OOP requires more transistors for the path prediction so it increases cost and power consumption.

How do you figure? In-order vs out-of-order is more than just a choice between different methods to get to the same ends since an in-order design is inherently slower. The whole point of an out-of-order design is to increase performance by executing instructions out of sequential order in a way that better utilizes the pipeline. To save power by using an in order design, they left a lot of performance on the table. I'd call that a problem if your goal is performance which is the aspect we're discussing here. Stated another way: If the complaint is insufficient performance (as is the case in this thread), being in-order is indeed a problem.
post #28 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle View Post

How do you figure? In-order vs out-of-order is more than just a choice between different methods to get to the same ends since an in-order design is inherently slower. The whole point of an out-of-order design is to increase performance by executing instructions out of sequential order in a way that better utilizes the pipeline. To save power by using an in order design, they left a lot of performance on the table. I'd call that a problem if your goal is performance which is the aspect we're discussing here. Stated another way: If the complaint is insufficient performance (as is the case in this thread), being in-order is indeed a problem.

However, performance is not the only metric or even the more important one. The Atom is about the balance of cost, power, and performance. If you want performance, go buy a main line CPU (which is why Intel wanted to ensure Atom would not canablize Celeron sales).

The limited CPU performance could be mitigate with a better GPU.
The TDP limit could have been migitaged with a better chipset... allowing for a larger CPU power budget.
A current process instead of an older node would have allowed a larger CPU power budget as well.

Look at what the Atom could have been with Medfield. This single core Atom beats two Cortex-A9 with the same power budget. The Saltwell core is basically the same original Diamondville Atom core but on a smaller process with a few tweaks. Basically, look at dual-core Cortex-A9 today.... one would say they have enough performance for a relatively responsive and usable system. A dual-core Atom is 2.5-3 times that performance (of course, it would in Windows and that has more overhead). For the time (5 years ago), the in-order design would have been sufficient IF the chipset didn't use 18w and the GPU could off load SOMETHING. Look at the AMD Brazos E-350... it CPU performance is about equal to an Atom but it has a vastly better GPU and those systems are quite usable.
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post #29 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBrogbo View Post

Oh boy...

I've never been impressed with the Atom architecture. I bought a dual-core one with a dedicated GPU, and it was seriously the slowest computer I've ever used in my life. I'm actually half-convinced that there was something defective about it, because my old Athlon XP 2000+ was faster than that piece of junk.

That's because it was faster. Athlon XP 2000+ was a single-core 1.67 GHz CPU with an out-of-order execution design running on a modern bus protocol. It had excellent IPC for its time and x87 performance second to none, and it also had all of the special instructions up to SSE. The last I heard, AMD was still selling the AXP core as a Geode embedded CPU.

The original Atom was basically a throwback to the Pentium Classic, with its in-order design. It was like taking a CPU design from 1993 and then bolting on a modern bus and all of the special instructions developed since them. Since it only ran at 1.6 GHz, on an ALU design that had to have an IPC inferior to the Athlon XP, the only way it was going to be faster was if it was running multi-threaded software, or if it was running software dependent on some version of SSE that came out after the AXP. And no one in their right mind would use something as weak as the Atom for software in either of those classes to begin with. If you were running ordinary single-threaded software with depends on ALU performance, you'd rather have that Athlon XP any day.

I haven't touched an Atom since kicking the tires on a few netbooks back then and realizing just how bad it was, but I understand that the suck factor of the Atom has been greatly reduced in the newer designs.
     
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post #30 of 43
I hope this atom will be usable. I regret everyday I think about that netbook I had. So hard to believe it is as fast as a zacate.
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