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so i was thinking 3770k to 4770k, i take it haswell clocks worse and runs hotter ?! but clock for clock is 10% faster ? - Page 10

post #91 of 96
I would go for haswell, not because it's great, but because why not, it's all the same...

Just sell your i5-2500K+mobo, and buy haswell. What, you pay maybe $100 if you buy from microcenter for the upgrade? Only time I'd have a reservation is if you have a 5ghz+ overclock on a good chip, but you clearly don't.

On the other hand, no, I dont think haswell (or ivy for that matter) is really a signficant upgrade from sandy. If for some reason you couldn't sell your sandy, that you had to throw it in the garbage after using it, I would totally not recommend getting haswell.

But that's the problem around here. People seem to think that they have to throw their stuff away after using it or something. Makes no sense... Computer components are fungible, they are like cash. You can literally sell them for market value even when used. They hold their value very, very well. So there is no reason that everyone here, should not just sell whatever they got, and buy haswell (unless they got a golden chip), especially if you live by microcenter and can pay below MSRP.

Like I bought my i7-3770K + UD5H for $209+79. I'll sell them for $290+160, and then just buy haswell for $289+149. I literally make a profit going to haswell from ivy. Even if I had to pay $40, so what, it's worth it.

You aren't paying $289 for Haswell, or $329. You are paying $289 - (Your CPU) = Cost of Upgrade. Why would you not just upgrade anytime something new came out. If you are smart about when and where you buy, you can even flip a profit. Like if you wait until Black Friday to buy your Haswell.

I mean paying what, like $20-40 in 'renting fee' because you buy your haswell off newegg instead or before black friday, to use it for a few months? That's a great deal...

That said, since my chip can do 5ghz, I might not buy haswell. Really depends on performance of haswell delidded, the binning numbers, how good the gigabyte Z87X-UD3H is, if I can use 3 monitors off the iGPU and how good the iGPU is (which is actually very relevant to me, I run my graphics cards on dummy plugs not hooked up to monitors for GPGPU work, and just switch when gaming, but I'd like to be able to just use the iGPU for gaming in starcraft 2), the IMC (my RAM can do 2400mhz, my IMC can only do 2200 with 4 sticks)... My chip isn't golden because it requires 1.56v to do 5ghz, but 5ghz is 5ghz, so I'm a bit torn. I'll probably just end up buying on black friday.
Quote:
And don't run it at 1.6V. I have to replace mine because I ran it for a month (or 2) at that high of voltage and it's degraded to the point where 4.9 @ 1.55V is unstable.

Is there a thread on this or something? There have been zero reports of degradation on ivy (although I'm thinking I may have degraded mine, what was 51 hours stable at 1.49v is now 1.56v for no whea errors in general usage, havent tried testing it but it may just be a breaking in of the chip). So it'd be a first. 1.6v is really high though...

There is no reason to get ivy over haswell... there might be an argument on whether it's worth basically the time to basically install a new mobo+cpu and go from ivy to haswell, but there's no reason not to get haswell over ivy... they are both basically the same price, haswell is slightly better, better IMC, better features, etc. Only question is if haswell is worth going to if you have a good ivy.
Edited by Belial - 6/4/13 at 1:40am
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post #92 of 96
^^ You won't be selling a 3770k for $290. This is from someone who has sold 5 of them. eBay fees alone are 10% of whatever you sell for. With the market soon to be flooded, I suspect most people will make < $200 after fees.

Motherboards are similarly a very hard sell. You will take a 25% hit off MSRP immediately, and then another 10% in fees.

You're also not taking into account that upgrading requires labor in terms of moving data around, cooling, hardware, etc. Watercooling, RAID, etc all make it even more of a process.
post #93 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

I would go for haswell, not because it's great, but because why not, it's all the same...

Just sell your i5-2500K+mobo, and buy haswell. What, you pay maybe $100 if you buy from microcenter for the upgrade? Only time I'd have a reservation is if you have a 5ghz+ overclock on a good chip, but you clearly don't.

On the other hand, no, I dont think haswell (or ivy for that matter) is really a signficant upgrade from sandy. If for some reason you couldn't sell your sandy, that you had to throw it in the garbage after using it, I would totally not recommend getting haswell.

But that's the problem around here. People seem to think that they have to throw their stuff away after using it or something. Makes no sense... Computer components are fungible, they are like cash. You can literally sell them for market value even when used. They hold their value very, very well. So there is no reason that everyone here, should not just sell whatever they got, and buy haswell (unless they got a golden chip), especially if you live by microcenter and can pay below MSRP.

Like I bought my i7-3770K + UD5H for $209+79. I'll sell them for $290+160, and then just buy haswell for $289+149. I literally make a profit going to haswell from ivy. Even if I had to pay $40, so what, it's worth it.

You aren't paying $289 for Haswell, or $329. You are paying $289 - (Your CPU) = Cost of Upgrade. Why would you not just upgrade anytime something new came out. If you are smart about when and where you buy, you can even flip a profit. Like if you wait until Black Friday to buy your Haswell.

I mean paying what, like $20-40 in 'renting fee' because you buy your haswell off newegg instead or before black friday, to use it for a few months? That's a great deal...

Exactly! I spent ~$100 for "upgrade fee" but mostly because I chose a nice mobo this time instead of the crap Asus V-LX (4 phase *cringe*)I stupidly bought the first time around.
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post #94 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

I would go for haswell, not because it's great, but because why not, it's all the same...

Just sell your i5-2500K+mobo, and buy haswell. What, you pay maybe $100 if you buy from microcenter for the upgrade? Only time I'd have a reservation is if you have a 5ghz+ overclock on a good chip, but you clearly don't.

On the other hand, no, I dont think haswell (or ivy for that matter) is really a signficant upgrade from sandy. If for some reason you couldn't sell your sandy, that you had to throw it in the garbage after using it, I would totally not recommend getting haswell.

That said, since my chip can do 5ghz, I might not buy haswell. Really depends on performance of haswell delidded, the binning numbers, how good the gigabyte Z87X-UD3H is, if I can use 3 monitors off the iGPU and how good the iGPU is (which is actually very relevant to me, I run my graphics cards on dummy plugs not hooked up to monitors for GPGPU work, and just switch when gaming, but I'd like to be able to just use the iGPU for gaming in starcraft 2), the IMC (my RAM can do 2400mhz, my IMC can only do 2200 with 4 sticks)... My chip isn't golden because it requires 1.56v to do 5ghz, but 5ghz is 5ghz, so I'm a bit torn. I'll probably just end up buying on black friday.
Is there a thread on this or something? There have been zero reports of degradation on ivy (although I'm thinking I may have degraded mine, what was 51 hours stable at 1.49v is now 1.56v for no whea errors in general usage, havent tried testing it but it may just be a breaking in of the chip). So it'd be a first. 1.6v is really high though...

There is no reason to get ivy over haswell... there might be an argument on whether it's worth basically the time to basically install a new mobo+cpu and go from ivy to haswell, but there's no reason not to get haswell over ivy... they are both basically the same price, haswell is slightly better, better IMC, better features, etc. Only question is if haswell is worth going to if you have a good ivy.

well this is my problem, my chip actually does 4.8 on air no problems, I had 4.9 but didn't test for stability. im just running it @ 4.4 right now because I don't maintain my dust problems well. im sure I can do 5 GHz on AIO water, I didn't even do a good job with the TIM on my noctua.

so, assuming I have a 5GHz 2500k, and ignoring the cost of switching to AIO water cause I don't mind buying that at all, am I looking at ivy or haswell or neither? oh yea I am switching mobos 100% to get a 3way sli capable model, so we can ignore the cost of mobo switch , im trying to figure out whether there is any reason to move to haswell over staying on 1155 with my current cpu.

pretend im looking at the 6MB L3 models, ivy and haswell, because L3 isn't a huge deal for me.

im also debating lga2011 but so far it hasn't shown me any reason to want to pay more and replace processor. to further complicate things I can afford a lot of processor down the road, but wont want to replace mobo at that point. want to keep whatever mobo I get for ~2 years.

are we expecting any miracles from broadwell? smile.gif lol
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post #95 of 96
Well, my 4770k is on the way. If you can get best buy or micro center to sell you a 3770k at $230, go that route. Its the same performance as a 4770k and it will come out to be $300-$400 cheaper after you get a nice motherboard.

I live too far from a MC to price match it. And I'm getting the $400 G1. Sniper 5 which pretty much has a $150 sound card built in. All and all I'm happy. I'll be delidding and WC my build. Don't hesitate to follow it in my Sig. I'll be doing reviews and whatnot for all the products.
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post #96 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr/owned View Post

^^ You won't be selling a 3770k for $290. This is from someone who has sold 5 of them. eBay fees alone are 10% of whatever you sell for. With the market soon to be flooded, I suspect most people will make < $200 after fees.

Motherboards are similarly a very hard sell. You will take a 25% hit off MSRP immediately, and then another 10% in fees.

You're also not taking into account that upgrading requires labor in terms of moving data around, cooling, hardware, etc. Watercooling, RAID, etc all make it even more of a process.

Sure, ebay fees suck (it's not 10% though, don't be dramatic...). Sell on craigslist, there's a large enough market on craigslist to sell for market value, and you don't have to pay the $2 shipping fee for an ivy or the 2% ebay fees.

So you sell for $270, so what, you spend $20 to go to haswell. OoOOo big deal. And I'm selling mine for significnatly more because I'm selling my entire build. Profit.
Quote:
You're also not taking into account that upgrading requires labor in terms of moving data around, cooling, hardware, etc. Watercooling, RAID, etc all make it even more of a process.

If you don't enjoy building computers, then you shouldn't be overclocking. I'm sorry, am I the only person who thinks building a computer is fun anymore? I do it for a job,my computer has never had it's side panels on for more than a day for the last year (multiple computers, as I've never had a built for more than 4 months), and I still get excited at any excuse to remove my motherboard or heatsink. That cable is slightly bent out of position? Darn, guess I have to unscrew everything apart and remove the chipset heatsinks and pull out my front panel usb to get the wires extended a bit more!
Quote:
well this is my problem, my chip actually does 4.8 on air no problems, I had 4.9 but didn't test for stability. im just running it @ 4.4 right now because I don't maintain my dust problems well. im sure I can do 5 GHz on AIO water, I didn't even do a good job with the TIM on my noctua.

so, assuming I have a 5GHz 2500k, and ignoring the cost of switching to AIO water cause I don't mind buying that at all, am I looking at ivy or haswell or neither? oh yea I am switching mobos 100% to get a 3way sli capable model, so we can ignore the cost of mobo switch , im trying to figure out whether there is any reason to move to haswell over staying on 1155 with my current cpu.

pretend im looking at the 6MB L3 models, ivy and haswell, because L3 isn't a huge deal for me.

im also debating lga2011 but so far it hasn't shown me any reason to want to pay more and replace processor. to further complicate things I can afford a lot of processor down the road, but wont want to replace mobo at that point. want to keep whatever mobo I get for ~2 years.

are we expecting any miracles from broadwell? lol

you are really difficult to understand. Basically every CPU is a new motherboard, don't expect to get broadwell on z87. With every new chip, there's new features and chipset. Sometimes, you dont lose much, like z68 to z77, but like p67 to z77, yea, that's a big deal, I need to use my iGPU for multi-monitor as I use my gpu with a dummy plug and no monitor for GPGPU work. Or imagine Phenom II 955 on an AM2+ board using DDR2 ram, that just sucks.

Every chipset, every socket, is 'dead'. It's not worth going up just a step, and you lose features even if the socket stays the same. Always expect to replace the motherboard. Of course, I will get broadwell and just sell my haswell when the time comes, I'll also sell the motherboard at the time too.

As for the extremes, waste of money imo. Games are GPU intensive, not CPU, and even if they are cpu intensive, they use 2 cores at the most, maybe some of the new cpu intensive games use 4 cores but they run just fine on an i5-2500k. i7 is multi-threaded more than enough. Extreme chips are only for like server work and extreme applications. An ivy bridge i5 outperforms an sb-e in gaming, because speed per core matters more than core count. If you have to ask, you dont need extreme.

Just get haswell, sell your sandy. Or dont. It's not a significant upgrade, but if you sell your old gear it's not a significant cost either.
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Intel X25-M 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 Noctua 120/140/140 Fans 3 x Yate Loon Mediums (Petras) 2 x NZXT Havik 140mm Fans 
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Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64-bit Sanyo DP19640 19'' KDS Radius Rad-7xp 17'' Ducky 1087 MX Brown 10keyless 
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Rosewill Capstone 550w Modular NZXT Source 210 w/Modded Window Razer Deathadder 3.5G Steelseries Blizzcon D3 
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Phillips FW-C250 2 Speaker Set w/3 CD Changer JBL Sub 6 Subwoofer NZXT Sleeved LED Strip 1m Blue NZXT Sentry 2 Fan Controller 
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Phenom ii X4 955C2, $31, 5 broken pins, works! ... Biostar A770e3 6.3 Red&Black MSI GTX 460 768mb Twin Frozr II 2 x 2GB Kingston HyperX 1333 OC to 1348CL7@1.65v 
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Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 6 x Case Fans (4 x YL-M, NZXT case fan, CM Hype... Jerryrigged Chipset-Northbridge 80mm HSF 
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Jerryrigged VRM Heatsink (sawed off stock AM2 h... Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64bit Sanyo DP19640 19"1360x768 Ducky Cherry Browns 10keyless 
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  • so i was thinking 3770k to 4770k, i take it haswell clocks worse and runs hotter ?! but clock for clock is 10% faster ?
Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › so i was thinking 3770k to 4770k, i take it haswell clocks worse and runs hotter ?! but clock for clock is 10% faster ?