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[AnandTech] Choosing a Gaming CPU at 1440p: Adding in Haswell - Page 4

post #31 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

And y'all said I didnt have the intel killer biggrin.gif

Lol what review where you reading?
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post #32 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheesh View Post

From what is out there the 4770K seems to OC equal to how the 3770k did (4.4-4.8), so where is that coming from? Both are silicon lottery.

Definitely still the silicon lottery.
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post #33 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michalius View Post

Agreed, but it still paints a very small portrait of a much larger picture. Certainly not enough information to base purchasing advice on. It's like telling people what car to buy entirely based on MPG.

Well - as far as I can see he presents the data as well as conclusions so you can sort of make up your own mind about it. I do agree that we could use a lot more data, but considering that for most reviews its like anything older than last egenration does not exist at all I find his results rather interesting. I mean I have not seen many reviews looking, for example, at AMD Semprons and its even rarer to find one hooked up with decent enough GFX card for some entry level gaming.

At first glance theres only one review and that was testing in CPU GFX things with some pretty old games and I dont know what they were smoking to test Sempron (it does not have on die GFX) and if they did use some kind of discrete GFX card they fail to mention it as far as I can see. My own experience with bottom-of-the barrel CPU's has been substantially better than your average memeber of internet forums is willing to give it credit for.
8f32861d_semptron.jpeg
Thats unlocked overclocked Sempron with 4870 GFX card. That was certainly good enough to play Source and Unreal 3 engine games at decent enough framerate and even with most of the eyecandy enabled (1280x1024 resolution). So its interesting to see how will these bottom of the barrel or several generations old CPU's keep up at 1440p and with a lot stronger GPU (or 4 of them).
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post #34 of 90
Oh look, AMD is barely behind Intel in the real world of gaming like I've been saying all along, even with 2 GPUs.
Except in Civ V...which is still going to be above 60fps 9/10ths of the time on either CPU. I wonder how certain people here are going to try and word it to make AMD seem much slower like they usually do.

The fact of the matter is that you're going to be limited by your GPU nearly all the time, if you only play SC2, Civ V, Sins of a Solar Empire then great! Go Intel, but if you're playing Crysis 3, Sleeping Dogs, Dirt 3, etc then pick whichever is cheaper for you at the time..Remember, a FX-8320 costs $60 less than an i5 3570k, OCs just as well as the FX-8350 usually and either is slightly behind or ahead in most benchmarks today, and likely will be ahead more often in the future if you look at Crysis 3 getting a few FPS extra. (The i5 and FX-8320 share similar clocks, so it's purely down to IPC at that point...People also seem to not realize that IPC increases as you have more cores going into the workload) As for that $60 difference, well, that's the difference between a cheap HD7970 and a cheap HD7950 going from a quick glance at newegg, the difference between the two would more than make up the small difference between AMD and Intel in most games.
Edited by Brutuz - 6/4/13 at 1:04pm
    
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post #35 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Oh look, AMD is barely behind Intel in the real world of gaming like I've been saying all along, even with 2 GPUs.
Except in Civ V...which is still going to be above 60fps 9/10ths of the time on either CPU. I wonder how certain people here are going to try and word it to make AMD seem much slower like they usually do.

The fact of the matter is that you're going to be limited by your GPU nearly all the time, if you only play SC2, Civ V, Sins of a Solar Empire then great! Go Intel, but if you're playing Crysis 3, Sleeping Dogs, Dirt 3, etc then pick whichever is cheaper for you at the time..Remember, a FX-8320 costs $60 less than an i5 3570k, OCs just as well as the FX-8350 usually and either is slightly behind or ahead in most benchmarks today, and likely will be ahead more often in the future if you look at Crysis 3 getting a few FPS extra. (The i5 and FX-8320 share similar clocks, so it's purely down to IPC at that point...People also seem to not realize that IPC increases as you have more cores going into the workload) As for that $60 difference, well, that's the difference between a cheap HD7970 and a cheap HD7950 going from a quick glance at newegg, the difference between the two would more than make up the small difference between AMD and Intel in most games.

I have been saying this for a long time.......Sadly I don't think a lot of people comprehend it. in gaming the GPU is what matters most, as long as you have a modern CPU. Yet you still see the uneducated user ask for build advice, and some noob will recommend he spend more on his CPU than on hid GPU.
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post #36 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

I have been saying this for a long time.......Sadly I don't think a lot of people comprehend it. in gaming the GPU is what matters most, as long as you have a modern CPU. Yet you still see the uneducated user ask for build advice, and some noob will recommend he spend more on his CPU than on hid GPU.

To be fair, how many noobs asking for advice are pairing their build with a 1440P (or higher) res monitor? tongue.gif
I'd wager they are on a low resolution (1080P or 1440x900).
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post #37 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by mav451 View Post

To be fair, how many noobs asking for advice are pairing their build with a 1440P (or higher) res monitor? tongue.gif
I'd wager they are on a low resolution (1080P or 1440x900).

True, but i'm willing to bet the results are the same on 1080p. Haswell reviews actually show this. We are literally talking a difference of what 10-15 FPS tops? Who cares when your saving cash and still maxing the game.

The fact remains, people are way too hard on Vishera CPU's without any reason to be.
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post #38 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

True, but i'm willing to bet the results are the same on 1080p. Haswell reviews actually show this. We are literally talking a difference of what 10-15 FPS tops? Who cares when your saving cash and still maxing the game.

The fact remains, people are way too hard on Vishera CPU's without any reason to be.

I agree with this. Past a certain point, CPU performance is almost negligible... Given the price points, they really should be recommended more.
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post #39 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

Well - as far as I can see he presents the data as well as conclusions so you can sort of make up your own mind about it. I do agree that we could use a lot more data, but considering that for most reviews its like anything older than last egenration does not exist at all I find his results rather interesting. I mean I have not seen many reviews looking, for example, at AMD Semprons and its even rarer to find one hooked up with decent enough GFX card for some entry level gaming.
You're right, and that's definitely the upshot of this article.

However, with caveats like this:
Quote:
A lot of readers have noted in the past that they would like to see minimum FPS values. The minimum FPS is a good measure to the point to for the sake of ‘the worst gameplay experience’, but even with our testing, it would be an effort to report it. I know a lot of websites do report minimum FPS, but it is important to realize that:

In a test that places AI in the center of the picture, it can be difficult to remain consistent. Take for example a run of Dirt 3 – this runs a standard race with several AI cars in which anything can happen. If in one of the runs there is a big six-car crash, lots of elements will be going on, resulting in a severe dip in FPS. In this run I get a minimum 6 FPS, whereas in others I get a minimum ~40 FPS. Which is the right number to report? Technically it would be 6 FPS, but then for any CPU that did not have a big crash pile-up, it would look better when theoretically it has not been put to the test..

Followed by this gross exaggeration:
Quote:
If I had the time to run 100 tests of each benchmark, I would happily provide histograms of data representing how often the minimum FPS value fluctuated between runs. But that just is not possible when finding a balance between complete testing and releasing results for you all to see
Anyone who has ever done benching knows you should run each test at least 5 times, and then either average the findings, or use *all* of it.

For the lack of proper performance measuring (as in, Frame Time) we are presented with this:
Quote:
While FCAT is a great way to test frame rates, it needs to be set up accordingly and getting data is not a simple run and gun for benchmark results as one would like – even more complicated in terms of data retrieval and analysis than FRAPS, which personally I tend not to touch with a barge pole. While I understand the merits of such a system, it would be ideal if a benchmark mode used FCAT in its own overlay to report data.
You say FCAT is too hard, and then discount Fraps, which has been proven to be plenty accurate in terms of reporting frame times on single cards. Even when it's off, it's still far more accurate than any FPS measurement, which is simply an average of frame times over a second.

So we have the writer admitting that this article is missing the most accurate measurements of performance. But then we get conclusions like this:
Quote:
If I were gaming today on a single GPU, the A8-5600K (or non-K equivalent) would strike me as a price competitive choice for frame rates, as long as you are not a big Civilization V player and do not mind the single threaded performance.
That can be literally translated as, "do not mind performing horribly at video game that is using two or fewer threads, and even BF3 multiplayer".

How can this sort of conclusion be drawn when the most important gaming data is completely missing?

Here's how the recommended 5600K performs with a single GPU in a typical CPU demanding game.





This is my point. You can't base conclusions on poor testing. I get the benefits of this article, especially comparing such a wide range of CPUs. But to acknowledge that the test is severely lacking due to time constraints, exaggerate on the difficulty of doing multiple runs to gather accurate data, and then finish the article with a conclusion on which processor to buy in a single GPU configuration that performs like absolute garbage (trust me, I know, I have a 5600K in my HTPC) is borderline offensive to me.

This should be relegated to a community amateur's benchmarks for some interesting data. It is precisely that. It's not an article that is worthy of actually basing consumer advice on. Doing so is disingenuous to the reader, and at odds with the whole point of journalism and consumer advice.

Anand, how did you guys okay this?
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post #40 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post

I agree with this. Past a certain point, CPU performance is almost negligible... Given the price points, they really should be recommended more.

Well, at 1440p with a HD7970, there simply is no difference between Intel and AMD, so... Yeah.
   
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AGP bencher
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [AnandTech] Choosing a Gaming CPU at 1440p: Adding in Haswell