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Deliding a 4770K (Haswell). Improving temperatures and maximizing overclockablity. - Page 12

post #111 of 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

GPUs are direct die cooling.
Depends on the GPU. I know there are some people who have delidded GTX 480s, but I don't think any of them have been crazy enough to run them without putting the IHS back on.

With a GPU, you don't have to remove the retention bracket to mount the cooler, and you also don't have as much of a chance of destroying the die with a cooler designed to mount directly to the die.
post #112 of 1134
Thread Starter 
Video added:


Edited by Cyclops - 6/5/13 at 9:26pm
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post #113 of 1134
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post #114 of 1134
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DizZz View Post

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Still rendering tongue.gif. Blame the Tube.

Edit: Should be fixed now.
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post #115 of 1134
So... results?!
post #116 of 1134
Epic. Delidding looks easier than I thought.
post #117 of 1134
For a brief moment a voice in my head said "hmm , i could do this ", then i slapped myself for even thinking it ha ha. Truly epic, very nice video there, and shocking difference it makes too !

+Rep thumb.gif
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post #118 of 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr-Mechraven View Post

For a brief moment a voice in my head said "hmm , i could do this ", then i slapped myself for even thinking it ha ha. Truly epic, very nice video there, and shocking difference it makes too !

+Rep thumb.gif

I know the feeling. This seems pretty easy and the results are very good. Scary as hell though. I almost wish I never watched this. devil-smiley-019.gif
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post #119 of 1134
Awesome work.

It's hard watching someone carving with a razor even in video lol. Glad to see you had the same # of digits before and after. +1
post #120 of 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr/owned View Post

There's no point in delidding Ivy/Haswell to re-solder the IHS back on. Direct die cooling will yield results superior to this, without risking a literal meltdown.

Not unless either soldering your waterblock to your die, or using liquid metal with thermal conductance high enough and bondline thin enough to counteract the loss in surface area (that is gained at 87w/mk through intels solder), prior to hitting thermal roadblock at critical low surface area stage of tim1..especially if using crappy end user tim (5-10w/mk). It is theoretically incorrect to even assume direct die is better cooling than a soldered IHS on a high power density cpu, and has been proven wrong experimentally on Xtreme if using paste on die, and more than once, there is more than one thread on subject. I told the guy doing it, he would likely get worse temps, he did it anyway, and got much worse temps.

With liquid metal it will be a close crapshoot. If you solder your waterblock to your die, then yes you will gain a few C.

The success of direct die depends on power density, surface area and dissipated power. GPUs have low power density, so direct die works well. CPUs have high power density, hence heat must be spread to much larger area AT A HIGH HEAT CONDUCTANCE, prior to running into any serious heat roadblocks like relative crappy end user tim like PK1. Intels solder is 87 Wmk, PK1 is 10x lower. Liquid metal is only 4x lower. PK1 will yield worse results, liquid metal may be close.

Myth 1). removing a layer like IHS is always beneficial. (if this were true, then also beneficial to remove your heatsink fins from air cooler, as all that surface area is just in your way...much better to just blow air on IHS. This does not work, because neither air nor water (and water is eventually cooled via air, ie rad) can cool without massive surface area, because thermal conductance of water is paltry 0.6 w/mk, and air is much worse than water. And heat conductance in expanding that surface area is king.

Truth, 1) removing a layer is beneficial if you replace the TIM with exact same thermal conductance (87 w/mk for intels solder). For example, removing a soldered IHS and soldering waterblock to die, yes then removing a soldered IHS will net a few C.

Solder: intels die is copper laden silicon with heat conductance of 180 w/Mk. Then hits solder (~150um thick) at 87 W/mk. Then hits IHS at 400 w/mk. But surface is MANY times higher from die to IHS AT A CRITICALLY HIGH SPEED OF HEAT CONDUCTANCE, before suffering slow speed of piss poor tim of paste 5-10 w/mk, liquid metal little better at 20 w/mk. Which is why direct die cooling using tim paste like mx2 or pk1, doesnt work as well as solder, but liquid metal even though 4x lower heat conductance, has a THINNER bondline, if you remove all the adhesive, and may get close result depending on how thin/lack of voids the liquid metal is applied..

This same principle is what cause the relatively poor results of the direct to IHS water cooling...removing bottom of water block did remove a layer of copper, but in so doing, removed critical surface area of pins at critical stage, and ended up with worse results.

Removing solder IHS and direct die cooling with paste tim = failure
Removing solder IHS and direct die cooling with liquid metal = you might see similar temps, but solder (per intel white paper) will have lower spread between temps...unless you manage to avoid any voids...in end that would be a crapshoot, and just an exercise in futility.

Removing paste (5 w/mk) IHS that has a ~150 bondline thickness like intel ivy/haswell cpu, and replacing with direct die using paste with thinner bondline will yield better temps, direct die or replacing IHS, because replacing critical TIM 1 interface at lower surface area with same thermal conductance or better AND decreasing bondline, ie win/win. Using liquid metal, now your increasing thermal conductance 4x, decreasing interface resistance (metal/metal lower than tim/metal), and decreasing bondline thickness in addition to removing a layer, ie 4 improvements 0 negatives.

It however does not follow that removing a solder IHS is beneficial, totally different animal.
Edited by opt33 - 6/6/13 at 10:26am
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